Is it worth switching from independent to state for A level if applying for a highly competitive subject?

[rougheredges]

DS is in yr 10 in an independent school. He’s really happy there- we’re pleased with the academics and he’s got a lovely group of friends. He’s currently predicted grade 8/9 in 9 of his GCSEs (and a 7 in DT which he’s doing because he loves if!) He’s managing this pretty effortlessly.

Currently he’s thinking he’d like to study Economics at one of the tougher universities to get an offer from. He knows he’ll need lots of extra/ super curriculars as well, but his friend’s dad told him today that he might find it harder applying from an independent school. Apparently there’s less wiggle room and the bar is higher.

I’ve looked online and there’s a lot of conflicting information. Most of what’s out there seems to refer to contextual offers which isn’t relevant. I’ve read that it does matter/ it doesn’t matter/ they take where you did GCSEs into account so it’s too late/ they prioritise state schools/ it’s all about grades and PS.

I fear the answer may lie somewhere in the middle of all that but is there anyone who could give more guidance? His current school are keen to keep him (he’s currently an academic scholar with a princely 5% bursary!) so I’m not convinced they’d give unbiased advice.

(Local state school is great. He’d have gone there but it’s C of E and we didn’t qualify being disorganised atheists who figured it out too late. They remove the church attendance requirement at A level.)

Does anyone have any info?

Good grief, if this isn't the definition of sharp elbowed parenting I don't know what is.
You're paying for your kid to get a top education, he already has a huge advantage over most young people.

Yes it's a good point about the Maths @Araminta1003 but it's a very strange system considering how little Maths is required in Econ A-level. If it wasn't for the risk of taking a subject you find you don't like, it would arguably be better not to take Economics A level in some circumstances.

The surprising thing is though that many more girls take Maths than they did in the 1990s but the Economics degree courses have got more male dominated, not less.

There are about 30 kids in DD’s state sixth form who have switched from private school. So it is happening. For many, it may be the fees got too high? They might think going to state now is better prep for uni life as more independent learning? But I do think a fair few it is because their kids want to do competitive courses like Law, Medicine and Econ and they have seen years of high calibre candidates with straight A stars being rejected. If that is the case, I would not blame them.
I know a boy who is very gifted as we knew him at primary, got 4 A stars, did not get into Cambridge coming from an independent school and had won competitions in his subject. It does happen. I have not to date seen that happen in any of the grammar schools my DC attended, to the very top notch candidates. Obviously, this is purely anecdotal. Oxbridge is always a little bit of a lottery anyway, especially for the most competitive subjects where 10:1 or even 12:1 get in.

I think it would if anyone could explain it coherently and it stood up to any scrutiny. I’m not sure if you’ve noticed, but just saying it’s because of inequality simply isn’t washing these days.

@Jeantheoldbean I've already linked to this today in another thread but if you are genuinely interested in this then you could do worse than looking at Daniel Markovits's points on meritocracy in his speech to the Oxford Union. He works at Yale University. But I doubt you'll bother as you seem quite entrenched in your views....

It seems weird to send the message to your child that you think they need to game the system to do well.
Just focus on where has the best teaching and a learning environment your child will be happy in. Things like length of commute etc are relevant too

I just don’t think you are comfortable with left wing dogma being challenged, you are taking it personally and trying to vaguely personally insult me rather than engaging.

Contextual offers are made only to students with the potential to be able to study at the required level, not because the admissions tutor feels sorry for them. 'Hypothetical sad back stories' is a callous choice of words. The AAA student from a two-income middle class family is already lucky, and they too have to learn that life is unfair.

‘The AAA student from a two-income middle class family is already lucky, and they too have to learn that life is unfair.’

And there we have it, I rest my case m’Lord.

Your case being what, exactly?

I have no problem with “left wing dogma” being challenged. And I am taking nothing personally. But you clearly don’t understand how contextual offers work, and refuse to listen to people who are patiently trying to explain it to you. Which is boring.

When I was at university there were heaps of public /independent school educated students who totally floundered and needed lots of support because they had been spoon fed and coached to get through GCSES and A levels. Meanwhile all the top marks went to state school students who had arrived at university with "worse " a levels.

It makes complete objective sense for universities to factor this into their recruitment strategies

So how would you separate two students both with AAA?

It is really not possible to get an A star in Further Maths or even Econ without putting the work in, properly. There are no lazy spoon fed kids getting those A stars these days. Even if they are in top private schools, they are working incredibly hard to get those A stars. There are only just over I think 4000 students getting straight A stars at A level every year. So if Oxbridge is rejecting a number of them it does make a mockery of the system.
For Econ, where some reading around the subject is required, I can see how they might want to contextualise. However, again, with the internet, it is easy to keep track of news and the economy and I do think most state schools will now have subscriptions to websites where any keen student can read around their subject.

I would let the universities decide based on whatever information they have decided to gather, on who is most suitable for their courses.

Do you not trust them to make that decision?

The thing is
a) 'Oxbridge' has its own tests, at least eg Cambridge has STEP papers for maths & economics entry.
b) if there are too many even with straight Astars for the places available some will be rejected anyway
c) Oxford and Cambridge also use interviews
d) in some cases an A from <insert poorly performing school> could be seen as a greater achievement than an A-star from <insert superselective grammar or private school>

What was the basis for the contextual offer when coming from private school (if you don’t mind answering)?

A relative of mine their school didn’t offer further maths so they taught themselves the syllabus with no teaching input and got an A star. Got 5x A stars inc EPQ at A level.

I’d guess it’s probably harder to get an A star with no teaching or even with potentially less good teaching (larger groups, not as much support). 🤷‍♀️

Did Trinity take that into account when making an offer. Possibly. I’d say it shows a strong aptitude and a passion for the subject so why wouldn’t they take it into account.

To answer the OP’s question I’d say there’s no point as the universities will see the move on tne ucas form. But if you do make the move ensure the state school will be offering the subjects wanted. Make sure you double check they will be offered next year not just that they were offered this year.

What’s the expression - ‘when you’re used to privilege, equality feels like oppression’.

@rougheredges Check out admission statistics of the universities you are interested in. Here is Oxford's: https://www.ox.ac.uk/sites/files/oxford/AnnualAdmissionsStatisticalReport2025.pdf
Under point 4, they look at private vs. state.
In summary, I think there is not much in it either way. In 2024, the offer to application ratio was slightly higher for private school students than for state-school students, but not much. If money is no object and your DS is happy where he is, I would leave him there. What matters most is that he gets the grades required.

I think you can ignore the "contextual offer" debate which is different from the private vs. state debate. The vast majority of state school applicants don't meet the criteria for contextual offers (socioeconomic disadvantage, eligibility for free school meals, time spent in care) and I assume your DS doesn't either, so he wouldn't qualify for a contextual offer anyway.

Repeating ‘of course they’re capped’ doesn’t make it so.

No-one is looking at two kids predicted AAA and debating which one to offer and which to decline. They’ll both get offers - the kid who’s had a significant amount of adversity to overcome may get an offer one grade lower than the middle-class privately educated one.

My son is doing A Levels at a state school. All of the offers I've known about are whatever is published on the university websites. The only contextual offers are based on home postcode. I don't expect them to accept him if he doesn't make the grades, because I know that former students lost their places for dropping grades. Unless you are transferring to a failing school (for which you might get a lower offer)there seems no point. But why would you want to do that? And even then, I'm not sure it applies if GCSEs are taken at an independent.

He didn’t apply to Leeds, but I looked at the Leeds contextual offer list posted upthread by a pp, and he qualifies for two different reasons on that list. His education is privileged for sure, but his home life is not. We’re grateful that the uni recognised that.

FFS Can you send me a link to a single university course where the places aren’t capped please.

What is it that you are trying to make equal? The equality of opportunity for academically selective courses via every requirements or the equality of outcome via postcodes?