A level subject shortlist to keep university options open?

[DressToKill]

My dd is trying to decide which A levels to choose. She wants to go to university but doesn’t know which course though might be interested in medical sciences, history or psychology.
Her strengths are the sciences and humanities though extended writing is not her strong point.
She could also probably manage maths which I think would be a good idea.
So does anyone have any advice on, let’s say a shortlist of 5 subjects she should consider to keep her options open?

Bio, chem and history would keep all her degree options open.
No need for maths.
My DS1 did Bio, Chem and Art
My DS2 did Bio, Chem and Music
DD did Bio, chem and geography.
All could have applied for nearly all bio, chem and related degrees, including medicine, or a degree in their third subject, which in DDs case included a ton of geog and environmental type degrees.
So for a short list of 5 for your DD, bio chem hist maths and another she loves. Not taking a humanity may not close all doors, but would make it more difficult to do a humanities degree.³

Have a look a this https://www.theuniguide.co.uk/a-level-explorer and play with different A Level combinations.

If she doesn't like extended writing, I would suggest taking History off her list - there is a lot of writing at A Level and, I imagine, even more at degree level. Geography is probably the humanity with least writing.

I wouldn't suggest maths if "she could probably manage it" which sounds like it would be a stretch. Weaker students do not do well at A Level. But she could consider Core Maths to support science A Levels.

I would have a good look at what local 6th forms are offering - larger places are likely to have a big range of subjects.

My DC and a few of their friends are doing 2 A levels and a BTEC, and that might be worth looking into too - for eg one is doing Applied Science BTEC, statistics and psychology, another sport BTEC, history and psychology,
another some sort of engineering BTEC (not sure what it is actually called) and maths and art.

If history seems a lot of writing at A level (it is!), maybe have a look at politics or classical civilisation (depending on interest), which don’t have a big extended coursework essay to write.

If she really is capable (and enjoys it!) definitely go for Maths. My degree subject and subsequent careers have been totally unrelated to Maths but recruitors always note it on my CV and comment how it is different to my other subjects.
During a spell in a career gap (to raise kids) I was supply teaching and two schools often me a job as a Maths teacher /they are so desperate that she would always have a temporay fall back option if the job market is slow.

Psychology A level isn't needed for any degrees (as far as I am aware), but it can be a good choice for students with an interest and aptitude in the area.

I took it in the dark ages (alongside chem & bio) when it was a new and unusual choice. I really enjoyed it, but many others didn't and it wasn't what they expected.

I think for new subjects (that students haven't done at gcse) looking at past papers can be helpful to get a feel of what it is like. At A level, Psychology is a mixture of longer and shorter questions (and includes research methods), whereas history is mainly straight long-form essays. That is why if extended writing isn't favoured, I wonder if it is a good fit.

Fantastic advice and lots for us to think about, her final GCSE grades might make the choice for us. I will be interested to see her final grades in English, history and geography to see how she copes with extended writing. She is only recently being allowed to use IT but that has made a big difference. I don’t know what her predicted grades are as our school does not give them until after y11 mocks. Until then we are just told if they are working hard, at expected level etc

To summarise the short list from advice here is;

Biology
Chemistry
Maths/core maths
History/Geography depending on GCSEs
Psychology/German/Music if she would enjoy and therefore do well

She isn’t doing music at GCSE though she does have singing lessons privately, which she enjoys and her teacher was disappointed she dropped it.

I will be interested to see her final grades in English, history and geography to see how she copes with extended writing.

The writing expectations for A Level are significantly greater than those for GCSE. So do not assume that a good GCSE grade means she will cope OK. Make sure she checks the A Level requirements for writing and coursework if she is thinking about humanities.

There’s broad agreement on this thread which is interesting and unusual

I would stress (as I did before and others have too) that history A level involves a great deal of extended writing for the NEA and for the exams. That’s kind of why I suggested geography – a humanity but one with less writing. That’s if she does the GCSE obvs (you don’t say but I assume from your last post she does).

Geog counts as a science and also keeps open humanity options, arguably (I am thinking things like politics or philosophy which have no specific A level reqs – tho again, the dislike of writing suggests those are not a great idea).

You and of course she really need to know her maths PG. I am astounded she doesn’t have it yet (unless she is in year 10 not year 11? I realise you don’t actually say; I kind of assumed year 11 tho I guess it’s a bit late to be thinking about A levels if so).

If she is taking German and loves it it’s a great A level choice (I’m an MFL specialist) as it’s a bit different and also definitely does not involve any long pieces of writing. But I would advise a 7 at the every least and ideally 8/9 at GCSE.

Psychology is the second most popular A level I have read. It’s not a hard science though.

DS1 got a good 7 at Maths GCSE and it nearly killed him at A level. He got a B, but only because we got him a tutor for months beforehand. It was almost to the detriment of his other subjects as it took so much time and effort keeping up. He wasn’t the only one.

Psychology A level isn't rare ! I believe it is now the second or 3rd biggest A level.

DD2 did biomedical science for undergrad and didn't need maths A level (though she did have 3 separate mathsy GCSEs).

Her best friend did chemistry and she didn't need maths either.

So maths clearly not essential even for very sciency degrees.

As PPs have noted re maths - be very wary if she gets less than an 8 at GCSE and if she isn’t longing to do it. It’s such a leap and i think A level maths is where the gap between those who are just very good at maths and those who are naturally brilliant at it really starts to tell.

My elder DD was certain she wanted to do maths A level, she got 9s in maths and further maths (albeit in a COVID year) and was encouraged to take the A level by her GCSE teacher. She had a real roller coaster of a ride with the A level. In the end (with two maths tutors and attending maths clinics), she got an A but there were times when a lower grade (C or D) looked more likely (she needed at least a B).

When I said extended writing is not her strong point, I should explain that. She has dyspraxia so cannot write legibly. Schools are set up to encourage good handwriting and it is only recently that it has been accepted that she should be typing everything. She has a very good grasp of what she would like to get across but has been hindered by the pain she suffers writing. We will have to wait to see how the new way of working affects her grades.
She is doing both history and geography and may do better at geography but she loves history. When small she devoured the horrible history books and by 10 she would sit and read any giant history books I could find in the local charity shops. Her first high school history teacher asked if she watched lots of history videos on YouTube and smiled when I said no but she reads.
I think she has achieved higher grades in science because her handwriting hasn’t been holding her back as much.
Maths again she was put in 2nd set for years 7 and 8 despite getting some of the highest test results in the year so that will have held her back.
I am nervous of foreign language A levels as I think many native speakers take them and this skews the results. My ds whose favourite subject was French only got a 7 at GCSE which was his lowest grade.
I’ll feed back all the useful advice which as pp mentioned is unusually unanimous.

@DressToKill - both my DDs took French A level and got As which was enough for their uni degrees (both are doing a humanities subject + Arabic; one at Edinburgh, one at Durham). They both really enjoyed the course. So if your YP is very keen on doing a language, I don’t think there are so many native speakers that there is no chance of a high grade. Full disclosure: I was an MFL student about a century ago including taking Russian from scratch (my DDs have taken Arabic from scratch) and i have used Russian a lot and French a bit in my career as a lawyer. So i’m a big fan of MFL qualifications.

I am nervous of foreign language A levels as I think many native speakers take them and this skews the results. My ds whose favourite subject was French only got a 7 at GCSE which was his lowest grade.

A 7 at GCSE French is a perfectly good grade. Your DS did well there @DressToKill.

Native speakers are not preventing anyone getting the top GCSE grades for sure. And while there may be native speakers doing well at A level MFL, that doesn't stop a non-native also doing well.

The exams are clear that native speaker fluency is not required, and the high marks are there to be gained, and gained by any candidate who does the work. I assess MFL speaking exams and I can tell you that the best candidates I have seen have been those (native and non-native) who have genuinely put in the work needed. It’s very evident if a native speaker has done no work and expected to wing it. They certainly won’t get an A star.

But I would only suggest German A level if she loves it and wants to do it. It only opens the door to an MFL degree – which may not be a door she wants to go through. Is she in year 10 btw?

Yes she’s in y10, when we get her predicted numerical grades we will be able to make a more if choice.

Strong disagree with this! All our children got lots of extra support from both parents and tutors (according to our skills sets) when they were in the last two years of their schooling and it meant that they started university on excellent footing. All of them have expressed gratitude for our insistence on making sure all bases were properly covered even if they were unsure at the time as to why we were so fierce!

Maths Bio Chem History

Ds 25 did biology, chemistry and geography and did a degree in pharmacology and ds19 did the same A levels and is doing environmental science. Ds 25 also started physics but found it very hard as a fourth a level so dropped it.

@clary When dc sit alongside the native speakers they are demoralised. They clearly feel inferior. Same at degree level where native speakers don’t need to bother with the language acquisition. Dd never saw them! It definitely makes a difference and a 7 isn’t great either! Not if you really like the subject.

Or they could flip it and view the native speaker as a positive resource, ask them their views about the political topics, get the latest idioms from them, use them to check grammar and spelling.

DD had a native speaker in her GCSE class and was not demoralised. There were native speakers on my degree course and they were great, really helpful. They came to all the classes too. Maybe they felt they might have something to learn.

A 7 at GCSE MFL is a great grade. It’s an A in old money. If it’s your lowest grade then maybe look at other subjects for A level - as I infer @DressToKill ‘s ds did.

@clary Whether or not DC view native speakers in GCSE and A-level classes as a positive resource has IME much to do with the skill of the teacher. Teachers who themselves are threatened by native speakers (and tbh this is quite frequent) also impart mixed feelings to their class.

Very likely @Ceramiq

I've worked wuth and assessed, esp as a tutor, many native speakers and have always found it a real positive. Insights and attitude and even new vocab, all good.

They clearly think I still have something to teach them - which I do!

Sorry @DressToKill bit off topic. Based on your posts I wouldn't specifically recommend German A level unless your dd gets a high grade and is interested in it. If she prefers STEM and history then that's the way to go.

@clary DD rarely saw them. Didn’t do the same modules. You aren’t aware of them until quite late on. Only until they disappear off to France and talk about it when they get back etc. DD was also furious that a translation was all about French culture in Paris. Suited dc who had spent the year there but way more challenging for others. Dd would have liked a translation about Geneva. No, dd would not have been friends with them.

A 7 isn’t great when going into A level. The native speakers and DD as it turned out will have 100%.