Actuarial Studies for a reasonable but not amazing maths student

[Portablepack]

DS is predicted a A in A level maths - looks like he will achieve it (no further maths). He's an all rounder with reasonable ability - average. For his A in maths, he will have worked reasonably hard (other subjects Economics, English). He has applied for economics and also actuarial studies elsewhere and managed to get offers for both (personal statement straddled both well) and now has to decide which to firm. He's prefers actuarial. Leaving aside the debate on whether firms like graduates with exemptions, how good at maths do you have to be to tackle actuarial exams? Looking at the grades which unis accepted students - I see that Bayes will take BBB (spoke to students at open day who secured training contracts in actuary) and uni of Essex as low as CCD. He's very practically minded and says he wants something with a clear end goal - but again don't want life advise for him but just some idea of how good at maths one needs to be? Beyond the scope of his maths teacher to advise apparently.

Following for advice too

anyone?

It’s ridiculously mathematical!
My dd swapped after half a term. She had A stars in maths and further maths. She spent the whole of the first few weeks contacting her friend at Cambridge ( maths student) for help. She also felt the students on the course weren’t very friendly. It’s only the experience of my dd, but she swapped courses and is happy now

I’m an actuary. I did maths at Cambridge. The maths in actuarial exams was significantly easier than that. Definitely more advanced than maths A level. Maybe on a par with the harder parts of further maths A level. I personally found the need to write in sentences much harder than the maths. The maths was just free marks for me.

I do know quite a few people with perfectly decent maths degrees who didn’t manage to qualify. (A common joke is that insurance companies would fall apart if they didn’t have failed actuaries keeping everything going.)

One of the things that is hard about actuarial exams though is that you do have to do them alongside working. If you are doing an actuarial science degree then you only have to study which will make the early exams easier.

I think there is a minimum A level score that you have to get for the Institute to let you take the exams. (Maybe BBB.) (I joined the profession over 25 years ago so I might be out of date here.) I would be very wary of a university doing an actuarial science degree that didn’t ask for those grades.

Have you found this site? https://actuaries.org.uk/qualify/become-an-actuary/route-to-becoming-an-actuary/

actuarial maths is very challenging and the professional exams are difficult when working full time. The two actuaries I know are extremely talented mathematicians- both with firsts who breezed through a level maths and further maths.

I think something to think about is what else might an actuarial studies degree lead to if he falls out of love with it? Economics is broader and presumably offers more career possibilities. What does he like about the actuarial course? Does it not feel narrow?

@Portablepack Your DC might be able to get on an actuarial studies degree course, and universities will be happy to take their money for that, but then they obviously need to pass the degree with a decent enough grade to impress potential employers and be hired. That may be the harder part.

My DC got AStar Maths, A Further Maths, A Economics, A Physics, then did a degree in Statistics & Economics at a high ranking uni, leaving with a 2:1. He got a penultimate year internship and is now in year 1 of an actuarial traineeship with a large financial consultancy firm. He loves it but is having to work hard. Some of his colleagues a year or two ahead have not passed exams first time around.

I've just asked my ActEd tutor (retired) other half...

He says picking a good Uni probably most important but that degree maths is obv harder as not many numbers. Maybe pick Actuarial Science or Economics or a degree with these options, it might be less pure maths (which is very theoretical) and more accessible (more like A level maths).

It needs a really good work ethic as the exams are quite hard, especially whilst working.

He says he picked his options at Uni by looking at the past exam papers!

There are apprenticeships too and maybe see if he can intern?

Would companies be more likely to choose a top maths grad or someone with actuarial science from a lower ranking uni? Any evidence of what degree fares better? I’m assuming economics grads are not looking for this career.

My DC's company seem to employ grads with economics, statistics, or financial maths degrees. Degree level economics is very mathematical and there are economics modules in the actuarial pathway. My DC did Statistics & Economics BSc and is now in year 1 of actuarial training. He said some of his peers that didn't do economics are finding the economics module difficult, whereas he is finding that easy but finding the financial maths module more challenging.

l don’t understand why maths is considered to be a subject that has to be approached any differently to anything else? How could it involve anything other than practice and application? It’s not like they’re solving Fermat’s theorem. l also wonder how somewhere like Bayes is able to offer Actuarial course to students with B in maths? They can’t all be dropping out?

My DH was an Economics grad. His students came from all sorts of backgrounds.

The exams vary, so some subjects suit people more than others.

Have a look at ActEd’s website & the Institute one.

Maths at Uni is nothing like A level maths. It’s not sums anymore.

The thread is about professional actuarial exams and the fact that some Unis accept low grades. DS not considering maths as an undergraduate .

Maths is still part of other Uni courses & can be at a very theoretical level.

DH said he looked at course options exam papers before picking an option. He went on to teach the very Math heavy actuarial exams.

You did ask why maths was different at Uni?

I’ll dip out now as you sound unwilling to listen.

Bayes' standard offer is AAA, though they are likely to give contextual offers and also (if not fully subscribed) admit some who don't get their predicted grades. Their UCAS page shows they have admitted as low as BBB.

The only way you'll find out drop out rates is to put in a FoI request, or you might be able to get it from published stats if you know where to look.

For those that graduate, the UCAS page shows 79% employment in "most common jobs" after 15 months.

You're asking for lived experiences here, which will be a small sample and probably skewed. The published stats are more reliable (your son will presumably agree if he is headed towards actuarial science 🙂)

@Portablepack also "Maths" is a lot broader than what is needed for actuarial science. For actuarial science your son will need to enjoy and be good at Statistics, not Mechanics or Pure maths.

p.s. This is where you can get source data: https://www.hesa.ac.uk/data-and-analysis

@brokendish That’s not a terribly high employment rate. Maths and economics from a good uni would be higher.

My son always had the highest scores in maths SATs for his year group, sailed through A-level maths and further maths, went to Oxford where he gained an MA. The actuarial exams are not inconsiderable and quite challenging to get through. Some pace them over several years whilst others forego a social life and focus on them entirely post uni. Fully qualified he earns well and works with two others, one based in India and the other in Scotland, to complement each others skills - it’s quite niche.

Professional actuarial exams have high failure rates which lead to resits; they are not easy. Does that answer your question OP?

l see on a FOI request that 77% of actuarial students at Bayes score 2.1 or 1st which grants them exemptions in whatever exams they scored those classifications in, which l think is quite good.

It's hard to compare, because "most common jobs" will be broader for maths than for actuarial science.

If I was a small employer, watching my budget, I might logically prefer to employ someone from an actuarial science degree than from a maths/econ degree because they will have already done many of the required training modules, so will qualify faster and more cheaply. This might become more of a trend now that the Government is no longer funding Level 7 apprenticeships. My son's cohort (starting Sept 25) will be the last to be subsidised in that way.

This is speculation though, not certainty.

I think they have to be outstandomg at maths to be an actuary @Portablepack.

DD's bf has qualified as an actuary. He did Maths and further maths at A'Level, read engineering at uni and took a first. Also innately musical and maths and music go together.

DS has a distinction in grade 8 piano (had distinction in G5 violin but dropped it) but again he worked hard at it like he does at his A level maths - zero involvement from me but not a breeze. Re the stoppage of funds for level 7 apprenticeships - this is what prompted him to look at actuarial for an undergrad - some accountancy firms are looking for grads with exemptions because of this so things are changing (source DN at a firm).