St Andrews - honest opinions please?

[enquirewithin]

Hi, DD was rejected from Oxford. She's genuinely not that bothered as her elder brothers went there so she knows it's not the end all and be all (another sibling did not go there but got better results). Anyway, she has offers from St Andrews, Edinburgh, Durham and Bristol. On reputation for her course, she is thinking St As because:

• CUG ranks it as No.1 for this subject
• there is an option of a Year abroad in Year 3 (UCLA, Berkeley, Toronto among others).

However, we are in London and worried that St As just that bit too remote and isolated? Not too mention a faff to get to by train. Without wanting to sound ridiculous - is it absolutely freezing up there? This is a concern.

I think spending 4 years up there would be too much - however, if the 3rd year could be in California, that puts a different slant on things! But would this option actually materialise? How many students actually do the overseas programmes?

Also, it seems like there is no Easter break because of the two semesters? Have I got this right?

Any info would be very appreciated? Thank you!

Thanks for all the perspectives.

At this point, she's saying she doesn't mind having a 'singular' experience for uni - meaning she will always have London and St A's would be a totally different life experience. She is very social, but not in a clubbing way particularly. She can always go clubbing in the holidays here if she really needs to.

My feeling is that the first year would be good fun and a novelty. The second year would too. If she could get overseas for the third year, then brilliant. I just think by the fourth year, the St A's vibe could be wearing a bit thin?

Does anyone know if the fourth year is a full year - eg. is it like Oxbridge where the exams can be all over with in mid May (depending on timetabling)?

I realise league tables aren't everything and shift slightly year to year. However, St As is no 1 for her subject. Durham is about fifth I think. Edinburgh is about 18th or thereabouts.

In the other hand, Edinburgh, as an overall uni, seems to fare better in international league tables like QS. It's probably something to do with size - eg. LSE is also lower than you would think in QS global rankings, whereas in London terms, I think most people would say it's on a par with Imperial which is second in global QS rankings.

We need to visit St As. She has been once but there were no students there and it felt very desolate, so might try and get up there in Feb half-term.

There is also a third year study abroad option at Edinburgh, but I get the impression it's more competitive than at St A's where it's more of an exchange? They have so many Americans at St A's by the look if it (on YouTube) and many seem to be doing overseas years themselves, so I wonder if there is a more established kind of exchange process going on?

My feeling is, 4 years at St A's could be a bit much when she could get the same degree at Durham in 3 years. It's only really worth going for either Scottish option if the 3rd year can be abroad. But that's just me! She has gone off the idea of Durham and Bristol - not sure why.

No she didn't apply to any London unis as it would have felt too boring for her, like sn extension of school. She has lived in central London all her life.

Agree with this, its a town near a city. It is however full of rich twats, so there's always that to consider. The year abroad does sound amazing though!

Again to judge by my uni, most good students who apply do get offered at study abroad placement. I just wouldn’t put all my eggs in one or two baskets.

Glasgow and Edinburgh both finish exams earlier than most English unis, so I wouldn’t be surprised if St A’s does the same. It’s nothing to do with Y4, though

Don’t get too caught up in league tables, they’re all good unis. Far more important is the actual course content - taking a closer look at what’s on offer there for each place might help her decide.

it's about 15 minutes on a bus from Leuchars station, I wouldn't really describe that as a faff to get to considering there are direct trains from London to Leuchars. Can be cold though and don't forget the haar (sea fog) that can roll in even on a sunny day

DS's friends are pretty normal. A lot of clever kids from Edinburgh - want to stay in Scotland, but don't want to stay in their home town. A fair few Europeans (for some reason right-wing French boys but I think this could be an issue with a military history module). The Americans he's friends with seem to be uniformly gay and anti-Trump. I think there are rich twats but I suspect, as at other rich-twat-rep universities, they're a minority and it's certainly not 'full' of them.

Your daughter's point about it being a different experience is v true. It's so far removed from London life, it's kind of magical (well on those rare sunny days). DS argued that he'd never go to university in a city as city-ish (and to his mind wonderful) as London so he might as well not try to compete with his uni.

(I think it's one of the hard things about doing Oxbridge - you get so focussed on that as a potential outcome and one that almost everyone opts for if given an offer, that it's hard then to try to make a choice when there's no standout obvious one. Think my Oxford non-offer holder is probably going for Durham, very high for her subject, but has to actually go visit it).

@enquirewithin what's the subject? Are you comfortable sharing?

St As have recently moved their semesters about 2 weeks later in the year - meaning that they finish close to Christmas - exams finish 21st Dec 26 and then in Spring they finish on 24th May 2027. Of course most students won’t have an exam on the last day - but you’d need to plan that they might.

Study Abroad is indeed a fabulous opportunity offered by many UK universities. In particular both the U of Calif and Toronto have a number of British partners.

There are many good reasons to choose St A’s. Its Study Abroad sounds good but far from unique, so I am not how large a factor it should be.

You really need to visit SA to make up your mind. Do the train journey and wander around, you'll know very quickly if it's right for you or not, the town's so small you'll see students everywhere and pick up the vibe. It would be a big mistake to make a choice like this without visiting. DD hated it, others love it. Stay the night in Edin on the way there and Durham on the way back and you can compare. League tables are not so important when they're all good unis. From what I can see pretty much everyone at Edin who wants to can do a year abroad but you could contact the faculty and ask re that subject.

I would think about the expense and if she’s happy to live out of a suitcase. Mine are at uni. They want to be dropped off and picked up every term and taken for a big supermarket shop before we head home. They have way more stuff than two suitcases would hold. They do need equipment for their courses however and have huge textbooks. It wouldn’t work for us.

Apparently she has been reliably informed via TikTok etc that there are lots of cats at the various St As accommodation houses and the cats will go on the beach and are quite famous. This could swing it. We definitely need to visit asap!

This is a girl who, for her 18th birthday, took us all on a tour of her fave London quirky bookshops. I wonder if St As has much on this kind of front? Does it have interesting bookshops and coffee shops etc, that kind of thing? This is more her vibe than clubs. Oh and crucially - is there matcha? I fear this could influence matters considerably!

Thank you for all your considered opinions. I'm not sure I should say what the subject is but it's a very common humanities one. We will go up at half term to do a Durham / Edinburgh / St Andrews tour.

I didn't mean to offend anyone referring to St A's as remote - my apologies. It does certainly feel that for us as Londoners though - it's all relative!

It has one interesting bookshop that I'm aware of and lots of coffee shops, it certainly has matcha. I'm sure a tour will tell you which has the right vibe straight away.

First person to find London "too boring" and then go the remoteness of St Andrews

Thanks umbilicat!

@Boofdj - she just wanted to get out of London for uni for a change of scene and there would have been little point moving out of home if she stayed here.

St Andrews has Toppings, which is a gorgeous bookshop, and many many coffee shops but it was too small for our DC. Edinburgh also has a Toppings (and Golden Hare, and Porty Books, and Typewronger and many others). Visit both and see which feels right!

my friend was desperately lonely at St A, so far from family, cut off by weather sometimes, cliquey snd frankly rather dull. The weird semesters also meant she didn’t overlap with home friends in vacations as much.

I think SA is a marmite place. Love it or loathe it. It is (very)small but perfectly formed. I think most students are tired of uni after four years anywhere, no?

Scottish unis offer three year degrees

just curious, how much flexibility do students studying abroad have to choose their modules? Can they take, say, graduate level courses? Do they need to take courses that are equivalent to the modules they would have taken has they stayed home?

As someone Scottish I never considered St Andrews because it's in the arse end of nowhere and takes an age to get to due to the 101 train stations in Fife. But if your DD has grown up in London she may like the contrast.

I think she needs to consider where she wants to live beyond applying for the obvious popular competitive universities. Durham is collegiate which gives it a different feel, Edinburgh and St Andrews has more flexibility in the course structure over the first couple of years (or is she considering going straight into second year?). What attracted her to those courses? While QS ranking matters if she's thinking about doing a PhD it won't matter for an undergraduate course, it's just about where she thinks she'll enjoy living.

I did my first degree at St Andrews, though more than 30 years ago. It has a better standing now than it did then, in no small part due to a policy of recruiting staff who are top of their fields and active in research.

I did another taught degree somewhere else which is also in the top quarter in most of the polls and the lecturers were more like teachers, as research wasn’t such a thing there. It was a poorer experience.

The small size of the town leads to a cohesion that doesn’t happen in larger towns. You meet and get to know students and staff from your and other disciplines, and you can't avoid bumping into them, unplanned. If you have a hobby, there’s a good chance you’ll rub along with some very interesting people. I got a lot out of some heavy conversations with academics in other subjects.

I know it’s more expensive there than it was in my day, however the tourism means that you don’t have generally have to pay for accommodation for a full year, the landlords being keen to rent it out in the summer. That also leads to potentially better standards too.

Dundee and Edinburgh are quite accessible.

You question the 4 year degree. They are all full years. That is because the Scottish schools don’t do A levels, and you get in on Highers, which are taken after a single year of sixth form. Many pupils do an extra school year for Advanced Highers, but that’s not essential. First year reinforces A level topics as well as moving on. Perhaps it’s a gentler start.

I would second going for the offer day. It’s well run, and gives you the opportunity to attend lectures & see some halls.

My DS was also redirected and since starting has not looked back. It’s an amazing place to be a student with a huge community feel and lots of fun traditions. He did a year abroad and loved his experience and is having an even better time in his final year.

There are a lot of Americans. Mostly very affluent. It makes for a more international outlook.