St Andrews - honest opinions please?

[enquirewithin]

Hi, DD was rejected from Oxford. She's genuinely not that bothered as her elder brothers went there so she knows it's not the end all and be all (another sibling did not go there but got better results). Anyway, she has offers from St Andrews, Edinburgh, Durham and Bristol. On reputation for her course, she is thinking St As because:

• CUG ranks it as No.1 for this subject
• there is an option of a Year abroad in Year 3 (UCLA, Berkeley, Toronto among others).

However, we are in London and worried that St As just that bit too remote and isolated? Not too mention a faff to get to by train. Without wanting to sound ridiculous - is it absolutely freezing up there? This is a concern.

I think spending 4 years up there would be too much - however, if the 3rd year could be in California, that puts a different slant on things! But would this option actually materialise? How many students actually do the overseas programmes?

Also, it seems like there is no Easter break because of the two semesters? Have I got this right?

Any info would be very appreciated? Thank you!

Don't know St A but DD is also at a remote rural university four hours drive away or a five/six hour train trip.

She loves it and the isolation does seem to make for a close knit community but there are disadvantages.

Just this week she had a call back from her (home) dentist about some X-Rays - she had to explain to them that she couldn't "pop in" for a consultation and not sure how we're going to manage things if she needs treatment.

Suspect also she'd occasionally like us to be able to pop over for a cuddle and meal out!

I think at the time we were all very gung-ho about "it will make you really independent not being able to pop home all the time" but there are times when it genuinely is quite inconvenient!

Is Edinburgh in the picture or not? It's far but still much easier to get to than SA and only a stop on from Durham. A completely different experience in terms of big city (but not too big) vibe versus sleepy town which is SA. Which would she prefer because some people love one and some the other? Both cold in winter but SA colder. And it offers a third year abroad. I have a dc who loves Edin, their friend is at SA and also loves it but one wouldn't suit the other at all. By the same reckoning, Bristol is much livelier and less uni-focused than Durham, so it's a matter of taste.

My daughter went to St Andrews. She really enjoyed it at first, but as time went on, felt it was a bit too 'small town' for her and couldn't go anywhere without bumping into someone she knew.
Accommodation costs are high and there is a general lack of decent student accommodation.
Saying that, she loved the beach being nearby and there are loads of student groups and activities to join if that's your daughter's thing.
It can be cold in winter and the rain is never far away in Scotland.

St Andrews still gets a very good reputation and is a great university, but maybe not the best for students wanting to experience a university with a city vibe.

I am Scottish. St Andrews is neither freezing nor remote, please don't be so ignorant.

St Andrews is easily accessible by train from King’s Cross (less than 6hrs to Leuchars). It is a costal northern town so obviously it is colder than London.
Has she visited?
It is beautiful and charming but it is seriously small town vibes and may be a culture shock from London.
Edinburgh on the other hand I’d have love to have gone to university in, really buzzing friendly city. Also it has a beach!

If you as a family do not live in a big city near employers, do not go to St Andrews.

I live in London now, but I went to a remote university. 8 hours away, over 3 separate trains. It took about 7 hours when my parents drove me. I absolutely loved the contrast and it was close knit and easy to socialise because it was small and there weren’t that many places to go. It also meant I couldn’t race back home to see school friends every other weekend, so I felt at home a lot faster

I love London, I never would have stayed in my uni town long term, but it was wonderful for a few years. I also did a year abroad (in California as it happens) so they definitely do happen if she wants it enough.

I had friends at St Andrews too. It’s not a bad journey from London really. Also it’s lovely to be by the sea.

I think she needs to visit both towns for a couple of days to feel it out. St Andrews is v small. Most of the locals dislike the student populus, car drivers in particular (rightly or wrongly!). Accommodation is an issue too. There are a lot of American students which I think changes the vibe a bit. It's not like going to uni in the UK but not quite an American uni, just an odd balance!

I’m Scottish and my dd has decided that StA is too remote for her and she would prefer Edinburgh ( or Glasgow as a back up) It doesn’t have great transport links.

Hi, OP -

As the former Study Abroad academic adviser in my School (in a large, well regarded Russell Group+ university) I can speak to the Study Abroad aspect.

Your DD has excellent taste: you have listed possibly the three most competitive destinations in the world.

Normally each university runs its own SA programme. But UC is separate. Our uni deadline is, IIRC, Dec or Jan, but applications to study at UC in Y3 are due in Oct of Y2. One applies to the university as a whole. Successful candidates are assigned to a campus by UC. (Applicants rank their choices) It is widely accepted that only those on upper Firsts stand a chance. My wonderful students, who otherwise succeeded at some of the most competitive destinations, were never offered Berkeley, UCLA or UCSD. We did place students at Santa Barbara and Davis, and they had great years. Both had marks of 85%+ when applying.

Only two or three students from my uni were offered Berkeley, UCLA and UCSD most years and they typically had marks of 90% or better. I don’t know whether UC spreads its UK allocation, so that St A’s could expect similar, or whether there is proportionality, so that it could be shut out some years.

Toronto is wonderful and our students have always had good experiences there, but again it is hugely competitive. At least it is part of the ordinary Study Abroad scheme: students are selected by the uni and forwarded to the partner for approval.

In the same vein, is Mcgill a partner? In Montreal. Very highly ranked in many subjects, teaching is in English, and whilst our students like Toronto a lot, they absolutely love Mcgill.

My DD was at St Andrews and loved every minute. I really don't get this "remote" thing. London is remote for many people. It's as cold as Edinburgh, but neither is exactly polar. Technically Edinburgh had a beach but it's a right old schlepp to get to, whereas at St Andrews, 2 minutes between lectures and you have the choice of 2 beaches. I do know about Edinburgh beaches as we lived there for 38 years. St Andrews has superb teaching and student satisfaction scores, plus very lively student life. It's very much a UK university experience.

Please don’t commit without visiting SA.

Have a dc at St Andrews. Yes it's cold, but no colder than Edinburgh. There are issues around scarcity and expense of accommodation but this is also true of Edinburgh. There's a lot of make your own fun that goes on to make up for the lack of diverse night life. Being so close to the sea with beautiful beaches is a bonus (there's a student rate for the 2 beachside saunas). My dc loved all the many balls (not for everyone I know), the St A traditions ( eg raisin Sunday) and the international feel with all the students from different parts of the world.

Also, you're right - no Easter break other than reading week, although they do get a week's break in March.

Recommend going to offer holders day btw - this is what swung it for my dc.

My son is in his final year and has absolutely loved it - he is super social so relishes the fact that you barely need a phone as you'll always bump into someone you know. This makes for a great spontaneous social life. The beaches are staggeringly beautiful and as a consequence he's become far more outdoorsy than he thought he was as an inner London child. There's very much a culture of activity, beach bbqs, swimming and trips off to the Highlands etc.

His accommodation has been averagely priced. Weatherwise, it's East Coast so that makes a big difference re. rain. Definitely colder than where we're from (London).

He's been fine with the distance as it's a straightforward, but long train journey. That's in part because he's been so happy and healthy. On the other hand, lots of people study abroad, my nephew for example had three years across the Atlantic. I'm excited, though, that I've got a child going to a day-trippable university next year as it'll be fun to 'snack' on visits rather than the full weekend in St A, which we do infrequently. We've also met him in Durham, Edinburgh and Newcastle as an alternative.

That said, it is a v specific experience. He's loved it, I don't know that I would have done so only your DD can tell. He didn't go abroad (didn't want to) but all his friends who opted for this got somewhere, although one ducked out of an American university last minute as it was when there was lots of hooha about international students. He says that he's now ready to leave, but wasn't last year. It is so small!

[edited for clarity]

Oh and he's ended up doing joint honours with a subject he doesn't even have an A level in - I think the flexibility of Scottish system is great for jacks of all tradesd.

What do you mean by London being remote?

I'm Scottish too and I don't think this is ignorant in the slightest. Have you ever lived in England? I didn't realise until I moved there how cold Scotland is! There's a big difference and I was several hours north of London. And I'd say St Andrews is pretty remote if you are used to south east England. It's close to Dundee which isn't exactly a large city.

OP there was a thread of St A really recently which you can probably search.

London is remote if you live in certain parts of the UK. If you live in these places it's London that is remote, not where you live. Not everyone views geography through a London-centric lens.

DS is there. Loves it. Took a while to find his tribe but now, it very much feels like home to him and he has made what he feels will be lifelong friendships. Honestly I think your DD can only get a sense from visiting, maybe spending a weekend there? She’ll be able to judge if she’ll get claustrophobic I think.
BTW DS drives up there which stops it feeling too remote - although he loves a Highlands drive so maybe that’s not too much of an issue for him anyway. And it’s often colder here in Surrey than in St.A - never windier, but often colder.

But this OP says it's the other side of the country to them so for them it is "remote." Obviously, if they lived in Dundee it would be a totally different answer.

Didn't apply to any London unis?

Imagine she wanted the experience of being at least somewhat distant from home.

But it's so far, (an extra year) and will be a larger expense for the parents.

If she wants to do a year abroad, then not necessarily an extra year vs an English uni.

She applied to two Scottish and three English unis.