Oxbridge and Autism 10 years ago

[Tartanesque]

Not sure if this is the right place so any suggestions of where to post is welcome. A decade ago my DD was sent down because she was struggling with her mental health. Although only 10 years ago the understanding of Autism in girls was limited. Indeed it is only now that I am aware that this was the problem. The shame and trauma that this decision by the University has had on her life is profound and during the last ten years it has coincided with close family bereavement. I am only too aware that difficult decisions had to be made by the University but I do think now there would have been a more nuanced approach. I work in HE so am aware of the changes that have happened re MH support etc.At he very least parents would have been contacted before the crisis emerged. I wonder if it is worth finding some way of at least closing this trauma by just having a chat with someone and recognition or something…Probably not but I worry that if something happens to me …there will be no peace.

I’m sorry - could you clarify what you mean by she was “sent down”?

Ah just googled, it’s an Oxford term and my YP was at Cambridge. To be honest I don’t think Oxbridge (or in particular Cambridge) has improved - my YP had exactly the same happen to them a couple of years ago. They are now at a different university and it’s a million times different.

You want some kind of closure from the university? I’d contact her old college, see if her personal tutor or any tutor she has positive memories of is still there and just ask them if they’d be willing to have a chat - in general I find academics are pretty nice people who will want to help even if technically they no longer have any duties to you.

Has your dd had therapy. She should not be carrying shame. I understand how this happens but she would benefit from help to understand she is good enough. She is enough. The institution was not a good fit and acted in a less than ideal way partly due to the time but none of this is a reflection of your brilliant dd

At the time I assume the college/university was not permitted to contact you by law. Certainly this was the case when I taught at other Russell Group universities until 5 or 6 years ago. We were just then starting to phase in a system wherein we were permitted to call parents/guardians if we were concerned, so long as the student had not explicitly opted out of this arrangement. What was unsatisfactory about the college’s management of the situation? I think it is often assumed that universities will act in loco parentis, and increasingly this is the case, but legally undergraduates are adults and the responsibility of the institution is to offer them an education and assess the extent to which they have benefited from it. If your daughter was unable to participate properly in her degree, and especially if she was thought to be a danger to herself in any way, they were right to suggest that she intermit. You say, though, that she was ‘sent down’. Usually this carries disciplinary implications? To be clear, was she asked to intermit for fitness to study reasons or was she required to leave because of a failure to engage with her studies? What did she do thereafter? Oxbridge can be very high pressure and even quite toxic for some students (I know I would have done poorly at Oxford and feel quite grateful that I didn’t get in!) who thrive elsewhere. Sorry for all the questions. I guess I’m trying to get a clearer picture of what went wrong and what the fallout has been so I can try to make some more useful suggestions about how you both might move forwards.

Did your DD engage with any of the support available to her?

Our experience is that Cambridge, Anglia Ruskin and Cambs NHS are a ton better set up than Russell Group unis to deal with ND, stress or bereavement related difficulties. The different agencies work hand in hand unlike beaurocratic prestigious unis elsewhere. I'm m no it prepared to say which Russell Group unis I have insider knowledge of though

Sorry to hear about this. It will have been the college not the university that made the decision that she wasn’t well enough to study (if that’s what happened?). Not said to be pedantic- if you want to approach somebody it’s the college.

Im not sure what you want to happen though, to get closure. You want someone to acknowledge that her case could have been handled better, if people at the time had had our current understanding of autism in high achieving girls? It might have been. On the other hand people may say that she couldn’t continue to study because they couldn’t keep her safe and that would sadly still be the case if the same situation were repeated now. I’m sorry she feels shame about it though, that’s not right but I think maybe she needs to work on that with a therapist rather than looking for something from the university/college.

I was at Oxbridge now 30 years ago and there were plenty of people there with undiagnosed autism. I suspect at least one of my tutors was!

There was also, at my college at least, a huge emphasis on welfare. I can remember in Freshers' Week coming out of the library talk asking "how did that end up being another welfare talk?" every talk we had from everyone in that first week seemed to be about who to get help from, where to go etc.

There were people who had mental health issues, and generally, as long as they came forward, there was plenty of help there. For example in my college I knew three who had taken a year out for mental health reasons, in one case restarting the year, in the other two they'd had a year of struggling and between them/tutor/welfare they decided a year out would help. In all three cases they completed their degree when they came back.
I know of further people who had episodes of struggling mentally, all of whom had support in various ways and none were sent down.

The only person I knew in my time there who was sent down did no work, and refused to engage when the tutors and welfare team tried to get to the bottom of why he wasn't working, but they gave him most of a term where they tried to help him, and tried time and again. It certainly wasn't a case of just writing him off immediately.

The scouts (college cleaners) were asked to be looking out for people not coping - a lot of them were very motherly, and people did cry on their shoulders at times. There was a system for them to report if they were concerned about someone, and the welfare would act quickly when told.

But at no time would I have expected parents to be called, except if it was emergency. I don't think they'd have been allowed to give details.

You could contact the college and see if one of her tutors is still there and they may be happy to come and talk to her. They may well remember her because being sent down is very unusual.
But I'm not sure that you will find it the closure that you are hoping for.

What do you want? Would it actually help her or would it bring up all the old feelings to the surface? What could they say, which would bring closure? Does she feel it would help?

Thought no one replied …thank you. Yes she was struggling with deadlines…she was a perfectionist. Won many prizes in the first few terms and then her fear and anxiety over social situations started to impact on work and yes it is/was very intense. In short had to do what was called then Penal Collections ( resits of term exams) and the very word must have terrified her. She was intermittied for one year but with set deadlines for work and i think she just collapsed and could not submit ( hiding this from family) . In the end she was asked to leave as above despite some very supportive comments from tutors. I think the college just wanted the problem gone. As I said this would not happen now. Therapy yes but so,e form of contact with College would just help us all. I think the impact of bereavement shortly afterward has got her stuck . She did go on to complete a degree and postgrad elsewhere but the shame is still with her every day.

…should also add that she had only one year to go for her degree but had to start all over again …thus incurred huge student debt which worries her of course

Forgive me if I’m misunderstanding anything you’ve said, but it seems from your replies that the processes followed by the college were disciplinary. Even ten years ago this would generally only have been the case if the student had no extenuating circumstances to invoke. When your daughter was struggling to complete work or perform well in exams, did she seek help from the relevant wellbeing services at her college or at the university? Did she follow the college’s policies regarding extenuating circumstances? Did she discuss her difficulties with her tutors? From what you say, it sounds as though she may not have done, which will have made it difficult for the college to work with her to find a manageable route forwards. You say she hid her unfinished assignments from her family. Is it possible she was similarly uncommunicative with those at her college who might otherwise have helped her? I’m not unsympathetic to her situation. I do understand that neurodivergent conditions or anxiety disorders can make seeking help very difficult. Yet I wonder if what your daughter really needs is to take responsibility for her own role in this and find a way of feeling compassion, forgiveness, and understanding for her younger self. I also wonder if you are communicating your own distress and frustration about this to her. If she is aware that you hold a bit of a grudge against her former college and feel that now things would somehow be different you might inadvertently be increasing her feelings of shame or failure. It does sound hard, especially in the context of bereavement, and I can see how the additional debt would be an ongoing source of stress and bitterness, but I think you need to help your daughter to see what happened as a difficult couple of years in a life that will hopefully be long, varied, and rich enough to consign that period of unhappiness to a mere footnote. I think the best way of achieving that may be to focus on the fact that, regardless of who was responsible for what happened a decade ago, there is only one person in control of her fate and responsible for her future now, and that’s her.

I'm sorry for what happened to your DD.

My DD is at Oxford now and for her degree you do need to pass all year 1 exams by the second attempt or you will be asked to leave the university. If you have special circumstances around the exams you can ask to have a year out then take them a third time following Sept, if fail you are out and if pass start second year. She has no second year exams and her next exams will be finals. It varies by subject what the rules are but the requirement to pass exams like this is fairly standard and the drop out rate is low at 0.6% for Cambridge and 0.9% for Oxford. That is similar to when I went years ago but Cambridge was kinder in my day - if you failed or where deemed at risk you switched subject and normally didn't need to repeat years.

There isn't any real communication with parents as they are adults - I thought this was fairly standard. Your DD has nothing to be ashamed of - it doesn't work for everyone - and plenty of people it doesn't work for go on to have successful lives. I know one who lasted a year at Oxford and is a Director of a FTSE company, did his degree elsewhere and says Oxford wasn't for him but he has no bad feeling towards them, they just didn't match.

I have an asd child as well and its common for asd to shut down and go non-communicative and refuse support. Girls are known for masking. Boys often let the entire world know they have a problem but its often guess the problem and the solution. It must be so annoying to have 3 years like that but I don't think she has anything to feel shame for - she got into Oxford so must have done well at school and she then found it didn't work for her and had mental health issues. There is no shame in that and now she has turned things around and got a degree and a phd. She needs to focus on what she has achieved. I would think about what you want from Oxford and whether contact would be helpful or cause her to ruminate more - my instinct would be to move on if she can and leave the past in the past.

Very helpful and agree with all of above. But in fact she did not fail exams I think the failure to complete set task during the time out was the clincher ( she just mentally could not even read ) and no she did not take advantage of all that was offered although some she did. Yes we need to move on and maybe I have to show the way. I think she feels she has let everyone down and It would just be nice in a way for her to find some way of saying… I understand why this happened but I can still feel a sense of belonging.

I don't know exactly how things work and think there is variation by subject but this college handbook mentions penal collections https://www.new.ox.ac.uk/sites/default/files/2025-09/New%20College%20Handbook%202025-26.pdf

I think they can deem not doing a task as failing. I think DD said you had to get 40 to not need to resit which seems to include fail and pass (but not the classifications from third and above).

I would imagine if she just wants to go to alumni social events at her college if she/you got in touch with the college's development office would imagine they would add her to the list if she's not on at the moment. Varies by college what they do but dinners, garden parties, art galleries, classical musical events, drinks in London, House of Lords dinners that sort of thing and some events you can take guests. If she just wants to feel connected and it won't retraumatise her then it might help but I would not question people on what happened at these, just exchange pleasantries. Otherwise I would vere towards moving on and drawing a line - sometimes bad things happen in life and they make that time difficult but if you ruminate / dwell on them / feel bad luck happens to you it can lengthen the effect. If she's finding it hard re jobs I would work out a line to take about it for interviews - generally I would avoid saying anything negative about an institution in a job interview (as they then worry what might they say about us) and try and make it look like a learning experience and one which is recovered from. If its something like medicine you might even be able to turn it into a positive like it gave me an understanding of mental health and autism. If she's aiming for more like the city I would avoid mentioning mental health. It sounds like she is doing well now but just needs reassurance she is still amazing and not defined by one difficult period.

Such great advice . Weird but could not discuss with anyone … too close to home. I blame myself for being so overjoyed for her and then trying to come to terms with it all going so wrong

Don’t be too hard on yourself. You are obviously a very loving, protective mother and most of us on these boards know how hard it is to see your child suffering or disappointed. Our instinct is to try to fix things for our children, and it’s not easy to let go or step back.
I think this country also has an Oxbridge problem generally. The media obsesses annually over what sort of people got in and why, and students who failed to get a place (or did but found it didn’t work for them) are, as a result, far more distressed than they would be about being rejected or dropping out of Edinburgh or UCL. I know a few Oxford dons, and they talk about interviewing candidates in harrowed tones, as though they’re wrecking the lives of those they turn down. It’s right that they take it seriously, of course, but also…really? Is going to Imperial or Durham such a bad thing? Of course not. This whole bloody country has got to get over its weird, lazy identification of success with Oxbridge. I know spectacularly interesting and intelligent people who didn’t go to Oxbridge, and I’ve met some pretty dull, unimaginative, middle of the road people who did.
Your daughter is not a failure because she dropped out of Oxford, she’s a success because she got back on her feet after what sounds like a very hard couple of years, and not only earned a degree elsewhere but got enough out of it to go on and do graduate work. There is no shame in any of that, only hard work, determination, and intelligence.

I just wanted to sympathise with you. My DD also had a hard time at Oxford (more recently) and although she eventually got her degree, it was misery throughout. She is dyslexic and supposedly they are aware of these sorts of needs nowadays but in practice they made absolutely zero adjustments for her. She struggled socially for various reasons and i also feel guilty for having encouraged her to go there as i feel she would have been much happier elsewhere.

As others have said, it sounds like your DD would benefit from talking this through with a counsellor (and maybe you would benefit from some counselling yourself).

As an aside, a friend's father went to Oxford and left before he got his degree. But I'm pretty sure he went to alumni events etc. He was in the college newsletter when he died so he was definitely regarded as member of the college. If your DD wanted to go to alumni events, and that would be healing rather than retraumatising, I'm sure she could.

I'm not sure talking to an old tutor would necessarily help. What if they aren't kind or sympathetic or can't really remember the ins and outs?

PS I just wanted to add that I really sympathise about you not being able to discuss with people. It's a very lonely position to be in.

I think its normal to be excited when your child achieves something and sad when it goes wrong and you clearly love her a lot so be kind to yourself. I would maybe use it as an example of how you can get through hard times as life will throw many challenges and its being able to get through that and not let past bad experiences take the future as well as the past.

Penal collections means it was the college, not the university that sent her down (collections are exams set by the college to check your progress, but have no bearing on your degree)

One of my batch in my college/ course had to do them and got sent down after failing, as he did no work and had failed the initial collection. To be fair, the tutors bent over backwards, but he was just on the wrong course for him and had no interest (engineering, he was a pure maths person, good enough at maths to get in for engineering at Oxford, but not for maths). He ended up doing the right course at another university. One other person left after the first term as Oxford just wasn't right for them. "Rustications" - (take a year off) weren't unusual for MH or drug issues.

Not sure what the college can do - as others have said, may be cathartic to just go meet her old tutors and discuss? In general, they did what they could to get people to succeed - the tutor system meant a much more individual approach, as you genuinely got to know each other well.

Yes, she is almost certainly eligible for college events. They are (for my college at least) done on a matriculation basis, not a graduation basis.

I agree with @MargaretThursday and @wisbech (was at Oxford myself in the late 90s).

Realistically, her not being able to meet the deadline for work during her year out (you say she was not even able to read at the time) does not suggest someone who would have been able to to return to Oxford and deal with the augmented pressures of her final year. It may have been the best possible thing for her.

Agree that even if she had returned she may have struggled . She sort advice from a college recommended MH professional who supported the reality of her crisis but suggested that with help it would work out. College decided otherwise at the time .I do think now things would have been better handled but understand the predicament they were in. So after two degree successfully awarded at another RG university it’s the trauma of that event plus bereavement plus lockdown that is holding her back …. Her confidence is v low.

Just a thought, but is she fixating on this as she can't change anything about lockdown or the bereavement but thinks that the discussion with the College will fix all 3 issues? I'm not saying it's not worth contacting them, but the impact of the other two are also important and need addressing. Interaction with the College won't fix everything. And also it's possible some of her tutors won't be there any more. Whatever she tries, I hope she feels better soon.

I actually think they would handle it now exactly the same way they handled it then. They gave her the year out to help her get herself together but she still wasn't able to cope. Why do you think they would handle it any differently nowadays?