Aerospace graduates going into finance - annoyed!

[RatherBeOnVacation]

My DD wants to study aerospace / aeronautical engineering at university with a view to either building things to send into space or working for an F1 team. It’s all she wants to do and has huge amounts of work experience to support this (arranged herself in her spare time).

She went to the Imperial open day recently and was horrified to learn that 25% of their recent graduates went straight into finance. A lot of them never had any intention of carrying on in engineering when they started their degree. A bit of digging online and The Student Room is full of people talking about the same thing.

Is this really a thing?

I can understand being tempted by the money, particularly with debt levels. I also get deciding it’s not for you. But it’s a specialist degree and why are you studying it for four years if you have no intention of using it when you first start out? And 25%?????

I guess I’m just annoyed as offers are three / four A stars, or two A stars one A at most top ranking universities. It feels like genuine applicants are having places taken away from them.

Sorry, rant over.

Because there are more graduates than jobs in that field: would you rather they stayed unemployed after?

Because during their course they realised a job in that area didn’t appeal and they looked at the financially best option with their degree.

Because they knew they wanted to work in finance but the idea of a maths or accounting degree bored them stupid.

Because they had no idea what job they wanted to do, so just picked a course they liked the look of and took and job they could get at the end of it.

@Treeleaf11 Satellites, space industry, planes…huge potential for job growth.

Or they can move into a different field. They need very strong Maths and design
,for example,

There are several problems with large numbers of engineering grads doing this. Cost of the undergrad degree for the university for a start . These degrees are subsidised by humanities students! They are way more expensive to run than a history degree.

It’s certainly not a new thing but unfortunately some of the brightest don’t stay in engineering. There’s much more money in finance! So even the best paid engineers will still earn way less than others in finance unless they get to a very senior level. Many won’t take the slow road. So many engineering companies recruit from abroad.

The uk doesn’t value engineers. Any old technician can call themselves an engineer. Not so in Germany. Other countries know we have great degrees but we don’t care what qualifications people have. Nothing much will do to call yourself an engineer. Doctors don’t have this issue. These days too many seem to think the degree is enough of a qualification instead of a starting point.

So by under valuing engineers, grads don’t want the jobs. Recruiters often cannot find decent engineers and we have shortages.

Yes a few work in F1. Most won’t. Defence industry - yes, plenty of options.

DN did an aerospace degree. There seem to be few jobs afterwards apart from in British Aerospace. It seems many hours space graduates refuse to work with them because it is perceived as effectively war work. In any case, DN was afraid of taking a job with them because his friends threatened to cancel him.

Companies that want the best grads need to find ways to attract them then

This generation are faced with huge student debt and insane house prices. Few can afford to follow their passions or be principled

It’s not really selfish to study something on a course you legitimately get on to if you don’t intend to work on the field or aren’t sure about your future plans. It’s great that your daughter is so dedicated, but she might want to change her perspective before she starts studying, as she may alienate her professors and colleagues with attitudes that only people with a certain career plan deserve to be on the course.

Most of them presumably do think they’ll use it though!

Apologies for misinterpreting your possible motivation OP.

A factor not discussed here is that an engineering degree is not a ‘purely vocational’ degree - and in that, it is different from eg medicine or veterinary science.

if you were saying ‘25% of those who do engineering degree apprenticeships go into finance’, that would be closely analogous to medicine. However, a student may choose to study an engineering degree at university because they find the subject really interesting (on a purely academic, ‘I find this fascinating’ way, like Chemistry, or Astrophysics) rather than because ‘this is the vocational qualification I need for my chosen career’.

Like most Music graduates don’t ultimately work in music (though more Conservatoire graduates do, as the more ‘vocational’ route); most Maths graduates don’t ultimately work as mathematicians etc et

I came on to say that Imperial is a fantastic place, full of opportunities. Imperial graduates are also snapped up.

I hope your DD gets in. My Dc1 graduated from there last year and is now working as a scientist.

I can't really understand why you have an issue with people studying aeronautics and then going to work in finance. Getting a degree is often about demonstrating an ability to think critically, creatively, logically and independently. There are many careers that graduates can go into where it doesn't matter what degree they have.

Good luck to your DD. She sounds very focused which is really impressive.

DH did chemistry to a post PhD level and then worked in a couple of STEM companies. They pay a pittance so eventually he took his extensive maths and computer modelling skills to the financial sector where he earns good money. He is one of the niche guys in his firm that understands the complex maths behind their economic modelling and the hard core coding to implement it.

Not true.

Complete University Guide gives an overall figure of 51.7%.

https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/student-advice/where-to-study/international-students-at-uk-universities

Were you thinking of a particular course?

I guess I’m just annoyed as offers are three / four A stars, or two A stars one A at most top ranking universities. It feels like genuine applicants are having places taken away from them.

You're being very unreasonable. Young people are allowed to go into whatever degree they feel will be a good fit for them, and will offer them a place.

They're all "genuine" if they're applying. You cannot know otherwise. And neither can a university discriminate in the way you think it should.

Surely that means 25% fewer rivals in the aerospace job market? She should be pleased!

OP, you state “A lot of them never had any intention of carrying on in engineering when they started their degree.” Please link to your source. Or are you just making stuff up to get annoyed about?

DC has just graduated MEng, and many of their peers either stopped after 3 years to graduate BEng and pursue other careers, or graduated MEng and are pursuing other careers. Is a student not allowed to develop their own mind between the ages of 17 and 22?

Also, reality and disillusion kicks in hard when they realise they’re not going to be the next Adrian Newey, and that F1 is very much who you know/how deep are your pockets. Good luck to your DD though.

What’s a “genuine applicant”?!

They apply to take X degree. That’s what happens. They don’t apply through UCAS to be an engineer by profession.

Sorry, but welcome to real life.

I have an Eng Lit degree, and had zero desire at any point to be an English teacher or a writer. I did the degree because I enjoyed the subject and knew I’d get a First, opening up all those grad scheme doors for me.

You don’t get life points for staying loyal to a degree subject.

OP misunderstands academic and vocational degrees.

English is a relatively cheap degree to teach. Engineering is not. English is not a profession, Engineering is. They are not comparable.

Engineering degree courses are not purely vocational, though. It is a completely valid choice - as it is for eg Architecture, Music - to choose Engineering as an academic course, and then not pursue it as a career.

This has been happening for years OP, I did an engineering degree in the early 2000s and the finance companies were always at the recruitment fairs, lots went into finance after. There is a shortage of engineer in my field which is a problem for employers but bloody brilliant for me...

She might be better following the apprenticeship route. My son did an apprenticeship with Airbus, earning £55,000 by age 22. No student debt.

So morals or ethics have a price tag?

Higher education is a marketplace where you pay for your degree so you’re able to choose whichever degree you want. It’s not like they’re taking state training bursaries and then doing a flit!

Every degree has graduates who never work in their field of study. University also about learning the principle of more in depth study and the work involved. Alongside going through the transition to full adulthood and learning to live as a grown up. You don’t know how much you like something and/or how capable you are until you try. Sometimes the jobs or locations of jobs are not an available. It turns out the fight against misogyny is just now worth it and life is better elsewhere. People go travelling. So many reasons….