Oxford reality check : just how hard do they work the students and if terms are short cant they relax ?

[Realitycheck1]

Ds doesn't want to go far away for uni ,lots of reasons and I'm happy with that. Oxford is actually very close and London but he doesn't want a city like London

Predicted 3 a stars

Really liked the open day and some colleges but has been put off by reading about the 5 week burnout and the volume of essays each week.

However on the open day one of our guides said yes it's hard work but easier than a levels !

Ds doesn't feel he would cope .
But I think if he...hard working naturally motivated studious student can't cope who can

I fully appreciate Oxford is Oxford but the other pluses for us are, it's so close , it's so much cheaper !
It's cosy.

I'm disappointed he's been put off to even try

There is only one other uni he likes.

What I can't understand is with such incredibly short terms don't they get time to relax ??

It’s tough but doable

my DD has one economics paper a week and one essay. The essay requires a LOT of background reading then planning of the essay then writing. Usually about 2k words.
Then straight into a tutorial and a new topic.

The topics are huge and in depth.

She does tend to work most days in some part- often back in the library after evening meal.
But also manages to do sport and have nights out. But fair to say it’s very different to the level of work my other non Oxbridge DD does.

However both of them thrive and suit their Uni. Oxford DD loves it and the work. But then has always worked hard and enjoyed being academically challenged/ reads voraciously.

Well I had to read and translate all my set texts in the holidays....

But during term time I still managed to do a lit of clubbing, play in an orchestra, help organise events, you just need to be good at time management and work efficiently.

My DD (studious/hard working) did a week's experience (initiative to get more students from our area to consider) and concluded that it wouldn't suit her. However lots of courses at other unis appealed to her. I felt she'd properly considered options. I'd worry if your DD would only consider one other course. Maybe encourage her to look widely. She might circle back.

I have family in St A and Durham and both unis are cosy. Students seem very academic (although I'm not seeing those that are falling out of the bars).

I did Law at Oxbridge. It was a huge amount of work but we still had time for fun, and everyone I knew coped and we all look back very fondly. Come week 7 of each term we were all ready to collapse though! The long holidays were much needed! A few years later I went on to do a PGCE (at a different university) and I couldn't believe how light the workload was, whereas everyone else thought it was the most intense amount of work ever compared to their degrees.

So, it's definitely doable but also more work and more intense (due to the short terms) than most other places, so I think your heart has to be in it.

This. Termtime is intense, you’ll have had to do a lot of reading in the vac to hit the ground running, and you’ll have to be ok with being very self-directed (one of the oddities of Oxford in my field at least (English) was that while you have world-class scholars giving lectures on a topic, period or author, they often won’t be in the term when you’re doing that paper), and for the tutorial system to suit you, but absolutely doable in conjunction with doing other things and having friends and fun.

My DD is at Oxford doing a science and it is very hard! She’s gone from getting over 90% in exams at A level to barely scrapping a pass at 40% for some modules. She doesn’t really suit the tutor structure either so finds that hard. She’s having a great time though.

Terms are short but intense and she’s spent most of every holiday doing uni work, even over the summer break.

When she was applying she spoke to a previous student and they gave her some sage advice that if she wanted the best education she should choose Oxford but if she wanted to experience uni life (social etc) she should opt for her 2nd choice (Bristol).

The key is that they really want to be there, I think. Everyone there is a hard working motivated studious student, but not all such people feel it's right for them. The impression I have is that it's hard, but fun - everyone can relate that a workload is much more bearable when it's interesting. Many have a work hard, play hard life - the play part can be choir, or board games, not necessarily partying. There is so much going on, both general activities like yoga or if you join one of the myriad societies, it's practically structured for students to relax as well as studying.
They do get ill, like all students, and are exhausted by the end of the term, but they support each other, and doting parents can feel useful again to dispatch care parcels and swoop in with whatever help is wanted!
What course is he thinking of doing?

See, I don’t think that’s true. Everuthing that’s available in terms of social life at other universities (I also studied at another university) is there at Oxford, if you’re able to handle balancing it with the workload condensed into short terms.

I went to Cambridge rather than Oxford, but

relaxing was not a feature of term time. I slept in the holidays (usually went home and then slept for about four days!)

honestly there is so much on offer you keep going because it’s amazing. Caffeine helps.

Take it with a 30 year ago pinch of salt, but I agree with the work hard play hard ethos. You learn to think on your feet. Also many people go up in 0th week and stay for 9th week, which gave breathing space around the term.

My DD (E&M) term time (roughly 9 weeks she's there each term) every day she does rowing for a few hours then study then in the evenings there's meals together / parties / bbqs so plenty of social activities but not that much sleep. This suits her and she's fairly high energy. In rest of the year she's here with us at home and works in a sporty job about 8 weeks of the year then other than that its meeting friends / holidays / minimal studying. It does vary by student and if you only want a First then you would be better to do quite a bit more studying than DD does. Though I think those happiest there are those who socialise and do sport, often rowing, as well as study.

DDs boyfriend went to Bristol and he does do incredible amounts of socialising, parties every single night though think studying time is similar between them and difference is rowing. The ones I've heard of struggling at Oxbridge (not many) are all STEM and also sound like they are very anxious / perfectionist (but always feel failing even when opposite is true) (some possibly asd as mental health issues in asd are far higher) often with mental health struggles pre university who don't socialise or do other activities much. In my day there were also some state who struggled feeling them didn't fit in but much higher state intake now, ability to mix with people of a different background is very useful still though. Cheap accommodation is great as is having DD home so much. She loves it.

It’s tough and stressful, but having an Oxford degree has served me better in life than dicking around at a more lenient uni for three years.

What is your DS thinking of studying @Realitycheck1

I would say you have fewer nights out, but a number of social occasions that are really epic. Living in college and eating every meal there made a really tight-knit community. It’s intense but nowhere near as tiring as working in a shop, for example. It’s a very supportive environment.

There are other Universities. Oxford is very intense, and I don’t know how the active undergraduates get much sleep. If your son doesn’t think it’s for him then maybe it isn’t. I have known students drop out of Oxford and thrive somewhere less intense, others who found a tutor for the vacations to help them cope.
What about? Birmingham, Southampton, Bath,Bristol or even Reading. Or even somewhere further away?

Essays DD has 2 a week, I had 3 a week when I went and manage to socialise fine - you do need to be able to work out what is essential and do that rather than read every word of every book to get that balance. It helps if you had relevant A levels - politics and economics were very useful for my economics degree. If they are managing to socialise at A levels would expect they would be fine.

As a former student of Oxford and of other universities, I really don’t think that’s sage advice. It’s simply not the case that Oxford automatically equals “the best” education and I don’t see how that student would have been qualified to say so having not experienced the teaching at Bristol. There is very little contact time at Oxford, the tutorial system is a very particular way of teaching that doesn’t suit everyone and the workload is extremely high not leaving much time to process and reflect. I was also taught by PhD students a lot of time who were highly variable in quality. Not only is the system not necessarily right for everyone but the collegiate structure leads to a massive amount of discrepancy between individual experience. Other students on my course had a radically different experience studying the same modules, as they were taught at different times and by different tutors. The best teaching and learning experiences I have experienced by far have been at non Russell group universities. Oxford still has a certain cache and it’s true that the workload is very intense but that doesn’t necessarily mean students are being taught to a higher standard or in greater depth than at other universities.

I did a STEM subject and worked throughout the holidays and survived. It's exhausting but the hard graft is cancelled out by the fact that you're essentially at Hogwarts. I had the time of my life.

@Hollerationinthedancerieeee do you really think there's little contact time at Oxford? I guess it's subject dependent but I had about 3 hours of lectures a day, 3 tutorials a week and a full day of labs. This was in a whole different league from what my friends at other unis were getting.

I agree with you though that the lecturers were often dire. I found the PhD students were often far better at teaching the course than the elitist professors who didn't give a toss about the students.

If it’s an essay-based degree yes the workload is intense. I would recommend you have to love studying your subject - lots of self-motivation and be willing to push yourself so you have time to enjoy your student experience (in first year, I rowed for my college, played in an orchestra alongside, joined a free Italian language class and a free dance class as well as making friends, going to the college bar and bops etc).

I read history and in Freshers week I was already writing an essay. In year 1 it was 3 essays a fortnight and one class; but the lecture load was not intense - so most of the time in various libraries. Such long reading lists, a new one every week!

If he’s not into the idea do not push him. He will hate it!

Oxford is intense but doable. Just don’t expect to study/socialise and get a blue. Also lower your standards. You are likely to go from getting top marks and being the best in your class to being average. It’s hard to be the best of the best. This can come as a shock. Also make sure you like the course, tutorial system and all the traditions. When I went several people dropped out because they were so concerned about getting into Oxford, they didn’t actually understand what they were signing up for. I had a great time by the way. Quickly realised I wasn’t getting a first and plodded on.

When I did my undergraduate at a non Oxbridge Uni in STEM, I spent 20 hrs a week in labs and 15 hours in lectures and tutorials. And that was spread over a 10 week term.

I think it's important that it's his choice. Oxbridge can be quite a different experience to other universities - they do just have a different approach to some things, including the whole short intensive terms - and if he doesn't want that atmosphere, he won't enjoy it.

I'm 12 years out of date at this point, but I certainly don't remember much time for relaxing! It was very different feel to what my friends experienced, even at other big name unis. And that's considering I had really wanted all the 'tradition' and challenge going into it.

Maybe Reading if you're between Oxford & London? Or slightly further afield Bristol, Bath, Warwick... all great universities!

@Hollerationinthedancerieeee I think it is quite subject-dependent and the pp who said individual experience varies is correct.

In my first term I remember having only one tutorial per week (in college) and a class every fortnight (organised by the faculty). The lecture schedule was not well-aligned with the modules so I was attending lectures in preparation for next term, and there wasn’t too much of relevance to what I was studying right now. I was surprised - I thought there would be more teaching via lectures.

So I had very little contact time. I did spend time with my subject peers, as initially we all studied the same modules but once a choice was introduced we were not even doing the same work. In some terms I didn’t have a tutorial partner for my chosen module, I didn’t know anyone at the relevant lectures, so I was working entirely alone - just me, a massive reading list, and my hour long tutorial (one term it was a 25 min bike ride from my college!)

It can be a very isolating experience if you are not good at forcing yourself to be sociable .

@VanessaFence “I agree with you though that the lecturers were often dire. I found the PhD students were often far better at teaching the course than the elitist professors who didn't give a toss about the students.”

God yes.I remember going to a lecture series and thought I was in the wrong room! The lectures were often very niche and didn’t overlap with the topics I was covering in essays or reading. Often fascinating but I would frequently just listen and not make notes - I’d use them as opportunities to think and relax. I did have one or two very targeted lecture series that I would say were unmissable, and I attended some brilliant lectures that had nothing to do with my degree, but I’d often turn up wondering if I was wasting two hours of my precious study time by bothering to attend!