How on Earth do you choose a uni?!

[OuiOuiMonAmi]

It was easy for DD when she went to uni because her subject was quite niche so there were only a handful of unis that offered the course. But DS wants to do Computer Science, so of course every uni in the UK does that. There are SO many and we can't possibly visit them all (especially because we've left it quite late, gulp). We can narrow a few things down (eg. he wants a campus uni) but there are still loads of them... or SHOULD we be visiting all of them somehow?!

Plan was to use a ranking list to see what are the best unis for his subject amongst the ones he's likely to get grades for. But the lists are all so different! One uni can be Top 10 in one list, but then in the 30s in another list. And a uni that is towards the bottom of the list for subjects overall has one of the highest ratings for teaching quality and student satisfaction so how does that happen?! (obviously they take several factors into account with general rankings but I don't understand such a big discrepancy.)

Should you really go to University and spend your money on ‘entertainment and fun’ or rather to improve your employment and earning prospects? We are wasting a lot of money as a society if it’s for the former!

For both? We need a balance.

Can I ask which uni was it that didn't help your dc with a placement?

@OuiOuiMonAmi The universities tend to advertise placements and dc apply as it’s seen as a “job” and competitive. None actually place DC with enough positions but some, eg Bath, have more options than most.

They don’t match students to placements, write applications, send Dc for an interview or even advise very much. Some have cv writing sessions and info sessions about applying but the student does the legwork. When they don’t have enough placements advertised it’s a case of a student finding their own. There’s a much shorter list of universities that place students effectively!

The small print on placements is woeful. The successful students are often kept on at the workplace because, in effect, it was a job application a year early. The rejected students don’t get the placement year and the universities won’t care. These courses are a lottery.

We went to the UEA open day yesterday and they basically said they will help students with contacts, CV's etc to find their own placements but they wont find them for them, as that's what they would be expected to do when they leave- find their own jobs. Which I think is fair enough if, as you say, they explain it at the beginning. My DS isn't doing a course with a placement so we didn't go to any of the other placement talks (they just happened to talk about it in the subject talk as you can do a placement if you want to) so I'm not sure what the others are saying.

Should you really go to University and spend your money on ‘entertainment and fun’ or rather to improve your employment and earning prospects?

Doesn't anyone go to university to be intellectually challenged any more?

@RainbowBagelsI think all universities should publish number of placements advertised vs those seeking them, ie those on the degrees. Just saying we have contacts guarantees nothing. It’s a list and sometimes firms pull out. It’s a very grey area for students. If you booked a holiday and 1/4 of it was not delivered, there would be compensation. Universities push it to “buyer beware” and it feels unfair when applicants find universities are economical with the truth.

I agree. To be honest, I think a lot of the issue is the culture of employers we have in this country. No one wants to invest in young people. I don't know whether its because companies can relatively easily get trained and experienced staff from abroad. Not enough want to offer apprenticeships and not enough want to offer placements, or even jobs, graduate or non graduate to people with no experience. Where do they expect their future staff are going to come from if so few of them are willing to give young people a chance? It's a very short term profit before everything attitude. Yet no one seems to ask why this is. Lets just blame young people for doing degrees, when the alternative is apprenticeships that are like gold dust or struggling to get a job. If we want a skilled home workforce then we need to give people skills and encourage older people to train young people, within colleges and in the workplace. Not enough employers are willing to do this.

I've raised my children the same way. The most important point of university is to study your degree. Is to get a good degree, learn some useful things and use that to get your job.

My DC was slightly hesitant about going to LSE and wanted to "gain more distance from home" and go to somewhere in the midlands. We said no, LSE is the best for economics and they went there. They had a jolly good time as well and really got to learn from the best in the field.

My DC then did a masters at Bristol and found that the UG students there were more interested in partying than education. To them "the sesh" came first.

Totally this. It's only with the benefit of hindsight that I realise what was going on, although I did think it was shocking at the time when my ds told me how many candidates had applied for the position he successfully got for his year in industry (it was in the hundreds). The company let him know the number, presumably so he'd feel like The Chosen One or something, but maybe it's an indication of just how thin on the ground these placements are. And if placements are scarce, will the same apply to graduate jobs?

And if placements are scarce, will the same apply to graduate jobs?

not necessarily. Many companies have some sort of graduate recruitment, but I’m not sure how many offer placement years. Bluntly the former should be a benefit to the company, the latter may be a cost with no direct benefit. Some companies just can’t afford the money and also time for whatever supervision an undergrad might need. Small companies might do summer internships but taking on an undergrad for a whole year would be risky.

I pretty much left DS to do the research- he created a short list and sorted out visiting unis. We didn’t accompany him to open days.
He chose his uni because it had great links with industry and most graduates found jobs in their field afterwards.
He’s in final year now and had an excellent placement this summer.

*some dc won’t even consider it and halls can be all of the max loan and dc don’t want to work to buy food. They want to earn for entertainment and fun.

Should you really go to University and spend your money on ‘entertainment and fun’ or rather to improve your employment and earning prospects? We are wasting a lot of money as a society if it’s for the former!*

It's the adjustment to adulthood, isn't it? They're accustomed to Mum and Dad paying for the essentials such as food and most clothes, leaving pocket money and earnings solely for their own fun spending. It's an adjustment at the age of 18 to suddenly have to cover your costs.

@Minniemetro I think we will increasingly see its “yes”. We already have many dc from abroad working here and they are bilingual and highly intelligent. We have many companies not doing that well and pausing production and recruitment. There are some areas of growth but employing a graduate to train does cost money. A placement even more but some firms use them for early selection. For both supervision is expensive.

Brexit has not done us any favours and vacancies are reducing and grad salaries are fairly static. Many grads don’t get grad work at all. I believe around 20%.

However degree matters. Flexibility matters. We have around 27,000 law grads every year. Circa 7,000 grads go into training to be solicitors every year and a few hundred barristers. Half of these might not be law grads at all but have other degrees. Do we need 27,000 doing law degrees? Almost certainly not. Provision of grads is outstripping jobs and many grads will feel shortchanged.

@OuiOuiMonAmi It was Durham that didn't help my dc with his work placement. We both assumed they would provide some guidance, maybe lists of firms that might be interested, some workshops on interview technique etc... but nada. They happily take 20% fees though!