How on Earth do you choose a uni?!

[OuiOuiMonAmi]

It was easy for DD when she went to uni because her subject was quite niche so there were only a handful of unis that offered the course. But DS wants to do Computer Science, so of course every uni in the UK does that. There are SO many and we can't possibly visit them all (especially because we've left it quite late, gulp). We can narrow a few things down (eg. he wants a campus uni) but there are still loads of them... or SHOULD we be visiting all of them somehow?!

Plan was to use a ranking list to see what are the best unis for his subject amongst the ones he's likely to get grades for. But the lists are all so different! One uni can be Top 10 in one list, but then in the 30s in another list. And a uni that is towards the bottom of the list for subjects overall has one of the highest ratings for teaching quality and student satisfaction so how does that happen?! (obviously they take several factors into account with general rankings but I don't understand such a big discrepancy.)

When deciding on a university the first thing you son should always consider is the course.

Each course will be slightly different and that's the thing he'll be spending 3 or 4 years doing, so should be a priority. What's the point of going to a university if you don't enjoy the modules or teaching style or assessment style? Things to look out for include:

• Modules offered (not only in first year, but a pathway going upwards into 2nd and 3rd year)
• Alternative modules (does that uni allow you to do a module in a different subject unrelated to CompSci? Is that something important to your son?)
• Year in industry (does he want to do a placement year? If so, what are the university's industry links?)
• Assessment styles (coursework, end of term/year exams)
• Teaching styles (lectures, labs, tutorials, and within this, class size)
• Contact hours (how much actual teaching time will he have? Does he want more/less?)
• Employment statistics afterwards (what % of people are in employment 6 months after graduating?)

I've written a blog post on this if you want to read a bit more: abis-advice-education.co.uk/blog

As he wants a campus university, he can check out the courses of these unis to see which he prefers and can start to rank the courses.

Then, the question of 'which university?' should be considered. For example, he could think about things like:

• What the university offers (e.g. sporting facilities, drama, pastoral help)
• Cost of living (some places are much more expensive than others)
• Distance from home (may or may not make a difference)
• What the place is like and does this suit him as a person (e.g. a 'party' university, busy town nearby, or near green space where he can hike at the weekend etc.)

Uni rankings can be confusing and are based on a huge number of factors. They are also subjective. It can be useful to go to a university with a good reputation, especially for the course that your son is applying for, but don't spend too much time consulting the rankings and instead try and prioritise the two questions:

1. Which course?
2. then... Which uni?

Hope that helps :)

@AbisAdviceEducationConsultant Thank you. That is very helpful. I'll have a look at your blog.

Thank you so much, AbisAdvice, I will check that out!

@AbisAdviceEducationConsultant I agree about course BUT modules change! Lecturers go on savatubsjs, maternity leave etc.The module dc might love, might not run! So don’t hang your hat on a particular module.

Year in industry - dc mostly apply for them AND find them! Few universities have enough to go around. Many students spend ages applying and get nothing. Be very careful about empty promises from university.

Not sure my brain was working earlier. Typo: sabaticals. Year in industry. Students often have to find them. Universities rarely have enough and even if they have links, the process is competitive for the students. Therefore a university advertising the courses with a year in industry are not necessarily going to provide it. The question to ask is how many get to go on the year and who supplies the placements. What is the application process and how onerous is it?

Re: year in industry - from what my son experienced at his uni - those who were the high fliers on the course, or ones who already did hobby coding before uni, were the ones offered the placements. Also, simply having a CS degree will not guarantee a graduate job these days. It's extremely competitive.

It's best to choose modules which can translate into a job in the future, rather than for fun, such as Security for example. You can then seek out a uni which is at the forefront of that particular aspect of Computing, as they are unlikely to drop modules they are known for.

@TizerorFizz definitely agree with your points, but module choices are still something to consider when choosing between very similar degree courses if you really can't make your mind up.

And yes - the year in industry can be a real challenge to get for some students, but I know that some courses are much more supportive than others, even at the same university. Also, of course it may be easier to network for placements in bigger cities compared to smaller unis, so that could be something to consider.

And I think the questions you mentioned (The question to ask is how many get to go on the year and who supplies the placements. What is the application process and how onerous is it?) are really great ones to ask when considering between courses.

My 3 dc's were very different. First dc said No to London and Scotland. Also No to any 'party' cities like Newcastle, Leeds or Manchester.

Second dc just went purely by league tables, which were (unusually) pretty similar for the subject. Didn't care about location.

Third dc has said No to London, Yes to Scotland but the Uni has to be 'pretty'. That rules out quite a few! Also the subject narrows it down as not taught everywhere. It's tricky, we still don't have a fifth choice for dc3.

Re: Year in Industry, my dc2 did one and feels strongly it made the difference in him getting a good job after Uni. But he had to do ALL the running for getting it, the Uni barely helped at all.

@Starmoonstar The issue is that dc don’t know that when they consider courses. What happens to the non high fliers? Or the ones who have not acquired coding skills before university because the CS A level wasn’t offered? I get the best get all the spoils but it should not be advertised as a year in industry course, when it’s not for some. Of course it can lead to a job but numbers recruited should bear some resemblance to likely placements and telling students to DIY is very poor.

@TizerorFizz yes, I agree. It shouldn't be advertised as a 'guaranteed' year in industry. When my ds was looking around unis, I think we all assumed there'd be a ready-made placement waiting in year 3 - I think we just weren't really reading the small print.

@Starmoonstar Info should be readily available I believe. It’s important that applicants understand what really is available. For those choosing a degree with a placement year, that year means a lot. It should not be missold. I can understand certain modules not running but the degree is actually called one “with a year in industry” or “with industrial placement”. So it should be delivered.

We twigged that there might be some overselling of ‘placement years’ when different unis were all proudly listing the same few large companies. Which surely meant they couldn’t be taking large numbers from each and every one of them, and smaller local companies wouldn’t be able to take a lot. The numbers just didn’t seem to add up.

@ErrolTheDragon That doesn’t surprise me. We need facts and figures! I know this issue won’t matter to some applicants or feature in their plans, but I’m amazed this “advertising”
is allowed to continue.

Experienced A level teacher here, I talk to my students a lot about why they chose certain unis so things they consider.

Does he want to play sport? If so, look for a uni that’s got a big set up for his sport.

Does he want a city or a smaller feel?

How much choice does the uni offer in his choosing his own modules so he can choose areas he’s more interested in?

Visit a few and ask the students questions about how they enjoy it.

Do the lecturers seem interested?

Does he like he look of the course there - not all courses for the same subject are the same at every uni

Does he get the right feel from the uni?

It was very different in the past. I went to a fairly low ranking uni but they had excellent links with employers built up over years.

Placement jobs started to be advertised early in year 2 and there were plenty to go round.

I applied for 3, got 2 interviews and 1 job offer. The offer I took up made a huge difference to my early career.

Contrast that with today where my daughter is doing a media degree at a lowish to middle ranking uni. A 3 month placement and a foreign exchange were advertised but in reality hardly anyone on the course has done either.

I would look at practicalities first - are they the kind of person that’s going to want to be able to pop home ‘a lot’ - do they financially need to work as part of it, are they bothered by loads of night life on the doorstep? And once that bit is narrowed down ( or not) then list the suitable places and investigate the course.

@Dangermouse999 We have 37% of school leavers going to university but promise them the earth. Plus we have media degrees. We cannot have everything.

I disagree. Given the huge expense of going to University, I would always look at the ‘return’ on that investment first. What are the job prospects and expected salary when graduating?

And if you can live at home and save on housing, even better. I’m baffled by posters saying their children won’t consider London even if they live within commuting distance. For Computer Science, Imperial College has excellent outcomes in terms of graduate jobs for example.

Are they really promising the earth though? I think people need to be a little more critical before deciding that a given course/Uni is a good decision and worthwhile spending £30k on.

@Bluelilacbella Well they call courses “Engineering with industrial placement”. Most reasonable people think the placement is provided. It’s hard to get at the facts.

Many people absolutely believe a degree leads to enhanced employment. I tend to agree that many parents don’t do due diligence on post grad careers because they believe their dc will get the grad job. Most do but around 20% don’t. Much higher % on some courses. Some degrees simply don’t get dc more money than not going to university. Unless parents look at IFS data, they will have no idea what to swerve.

Many people without family to advise have no idea that not all courses are equal. The ifs highlighted outcomes for economics grads between LSE and Wolverhampton. It was a huge difference. Does everyone know that? I suspect not. What about the courses in between at a variety of universities? Of course those in the know use critical thinking. Others go to university nearby and don’t give much thought to whether it’s a good investment or not. Some people do because some courses are closing but more need to.

Not all sciences are equal either. Some feed into the private sector and earnings are probably better. Some very much feed into charities and the public sector where wages can be low for graduates. People make choices on what interests them but it can be a poor choice if you earn minimum wage for years afterwards.

A quick glance at any league tables will tell you the huge difference between an economics degree at LSE vs Wolverhampton 😂

If you’re intelligent enough to go to University then you should be able to do some critical research on where to spend your money

@Bluelilacbella Many many dc avoid London. Do you think everyone looks at league tables? Do you trust The Guardian one? My DN did. They don’t respect The Times! Or cug for that matter. What about the differences between similar looking universities ? Does anyone publish earnings post graduating? The ifs one was extreme to make a point (top vs bottom!) but what about the various Stem subjects? Who might earn more after 5 or 15 years? What is a better bet and where? Interestingly medicine comes top. Some sciences mid division or lower. English near the bottom. Is English now for rich kids only?

@Bluelilacbella oh I don’t disagree with you on that too but I would also factor in the practicals because if your child is at say Newcastle and they are the kind of young adult that wants to pop home every 3 weeks and you live here in Bath however great the ROi is you might well end up with a ‘non finisher’ personally I’m very pro London , it may be more expensive but lots to do on the cheap, people to meet and lots of casual work to be had

@Crikeyalmighty Huge numbers won’t go south of Sheffield. London is for the rich I am told. I think it’s an amazing city but some dc won’t even consider it and halls can be all of the max loan and dc don’t want to work to buy food. They want to earn for entertainment and fun.