Just how hard are Maths and Science A levels?

[Flarerave]

Interested on views in light of recent results. Keep hearing how much harder maths and science a levels are than other subjects. Have a Y11 who will be selecting courses next year... an all rounder scoring 7-9 across board. Seems for best chance of RG degree you need to be aiming for 3A predictions. Wondering if this is more achievable with non STEM subjects?

It’s easy if you find it easy. Same with all subjects.

Agree it really depends on the individual, enjoying science is pretty essential for getting a good grade at A level so if they prefer arts/humanities I would go in that direction.
I did science A levels, I don’t think I would have done as well if I’d done say English even though I did well at it at GCSE just because I don’t enjoy writing essays and it’s not where my strengths lie.
My brother did maths and honestly hardly studied and still got an A, he just likes maths and is good at it.

I think you have to consider the cohort. Chemistry is needed for Medicine and Veterinary Medicine, two of the most competitive university courses. The students who are following this route need very high grades. This means that the class will inevitably contain some of a school’s highest achievers.

My DDs are in their 20s now, but between them, they studied Psychology, Geography, Biology, Chemistry, Sociology and Religious Studies/Philosophy and Ethics. Chemistry definitely caused the most consternation, both in terms of keeping up with the high achievers, and also because it was the only subject with negative marking, where you could lose marks for an error instead of just not gaining them. The “easiest” subjects, in which they both got A*, were Psychology and Sociology, and I think this had a lot to do with the other people studying them. They work well with lots of combinations, and some of the other students on these courses were just doing one A level in combination with a BTEC or other qualification.

It’s totally subjective.

One of my dc did sciences and maths and got all A star grades, because he has a logical brain and they’re his strong subjects. He definitely would’ve struggled to get high grades in English/any other humanities subjects though.

Agree that their best chance is to choose subjects which interest them and they don’t find too difficult. Also agree that by Y11 you’ll know if Maths and Stem subjects are where your talent and interest are.

What are their ambitions once they’ve got into a RG Uni.

Getting into obe isn’t as hard as it used to be anyway. For example Nottingham has Chemistry in clearing at BBC.

It’s worth looking at Uni courses they might be interested in, the entry requirements and if the course is currently in clearing.

I think the highest % of A stars awarded at A level is in maths. Obviously those dc haven’t found it particularly hard. I suspect some of these dc would run a mile from MFLs or heavy essay subjects. Horses for courses!

Depends what her strengths are and what she wants to study. DD did economics religious is studies and English lit and could only choose arts / humanity subjects as no maths or science. DS did maths chemistry and physics and could only choose stem type subjects as no essay A levels.

DS couldn’t have got As in essay subjects. DD maybe could have done as she works hard but she wouldn’t have enjoyed it. Both had similar offers for
the same RG uni AAB.

Physics has a lot of maths. Some in my school dropped maths after the first year and then really struggled with the maths parts of second year physics so worth bearing in mind if you are considering physics

Our school highly encourages maths a level with physics but for the rare kids that don’t go for that they do a Maths for Physics extra. I think trying to do physics alone is very challenging. My school boyfriend did a Physics degree back in the day and within the first term was in his third tutor group as all the others had quickly dropped out because they couldn’t do the maths.

Fore me, essay based subjects are easier. I just have a natural flair for them, and never had to work for it to get an A*. I did well in Maths, but had to work very hard at A-level and found the jump difficult. I never really felt there was a jump in English Literature- you just kind of write more critically, but if that's something that comes naturally to you anyway, it will be fine. The texts don't really get any more complex 🤷

Personally I think Biology is the easiest science by far. You can get away with a lot of rote learning. I loved Chemistry, but found your understanding needs to be good to do well at A-level. It's not enough to just know the material.

People who excel at Maths seem to find it easy. Otherwise, I objectively think Maths is one of the harder A-levels. I think it's not as easy to 'get good' at Maths, without some natural flair, if your brain isn't that way inclined. I think the skills needed to write a good essay are more learnable.

@Flarerave your DC's aim should not be to get into an RG University, it should be to get onto a course with high employability. STEM A Levels and degrees are gradually becoming more competitive because people are realising they are generally more employable.

What does your DC want to do after uni? If the answer is "haven't a clue" they should put some thought into it before choosing A levels.

@LadamesansmerciSo what about MFLs then? They get lower grades than maths but aren’t really essay subjects.

This!
Although I’ve also know those with 8s and low 9s find Maths A Level very hard and get B or C. It’s quite possible to get an 8 or even 9 without much mathematical aptitude.
But def avoid with a 7. Think v hard with a low 8 or one achieved through hard slog.

But that said, what to do does depend on strengths. In my DC detective school which performs extremely well, most can get 8/9 in Maths and Sciences but quite a few of them struggle to get above 7 in English. But most of them could get a higher grade in humanities subjects.

At A Level nationally , a higher proportion get A or A star at Maths Alevel than English lit, by a long stretch….but often the mire able are doing Maths.

Subjects like RS at A Level have extremely high grade boundaries and so whilst the subject will be accessible for students who might struggle with Maths, it might be considered very difficult to get an A star in and lie proportions do.

For a middling student with 6/7 grades at GCSE who have decided A levels rather than GCSEs, quite likely some humanities and social sciences will result in better grades. You might expect. Hard worker to hit Cs or possibly the odd B in humanities but something like an E at A level maths. Such a student might do better with a mix of A levels and Btec. The student with 5s and the odd 6 would almost certainly do better with Btec. Remember top RG unis accept Btec and some students will be able to access far better unis and courses via that route than via A levels.

MFL have high grade boundaries. It might be possible to get to a B without too much trouble but an A and certainly A star are hard to achieve. This is partly because many taking them are native speakers and so it’s even harder for non/native speakers. The gov have recognised this and there have been steps to make the subjects have greater parity with others and boundaries adjusted. But languages have been killed off to a significant degree by GCSE and A level specs being v difficult. And the move back from Ebacc in many places mean numbers have dropped and in some schools fewer languages are offered as less viable …depressing for linguistics and all so unecesssry!

Additionally some students taking a level maths will also be taking further maths and they won’t find the a level that challenging. Dd scored 100% on some of her maths already, but I doubt 100% is even possible for many humanities subjects.

Depends how easy you find the subjects. I was suprised how high the Chemistry A level boundaries were last year.

I very much agree that a decline in MFL is a bad thing.

I don’t agree actually that it is so very much harder for native speakers to gain a high grade. If the A-star GB is 360/400, and a non-native gains (say) 380/400 (perfectly possible; it's not a competition and native speaker fluency is specifically flagged as not being needed in the speaking assessment, for example) then they will get an A-star. No matter how many native speakers also get a top mark.

It’s not an easy choice tho for A level, I do agree. A B at MFL A level is a hard-won grade. And a native speaker is not guaranteed a top grade. Someone I worked with last year gained an A even though they were basically a mother-tongue speaker – they worked really hard but there were other reasons why they didn't quite get an A star. It’s not a given. Nor should it be obvs.

I do think the A level spec is good tho. It’s current, engaging, deals with real-world issues (immigration, the changing family, francophone music and cinema, the reunification of Germany) and it really is challenging. I think it's challenging for a native speaker as well, as indeed it needs to be. Hard work? bring it on.

I do see the point about maths (and I think it's fair that a lot of maths A level takers are more able mathematicians); maybe for a less-able student essay subjects are a better idea as they are more approachable for all. Interesting discussion!

Gah- this obsession with Russell Grouo

@WombatChocolateThe more able at maths are doing maths. Not necessarily the more able overall. Plenty of humanities students are very very bright but just don’t love maths. Often mathematicians are quite narrowly educated and might not read much or write as well as humanities students. I think subjects use different parts of the brain. Some people have very well developed brains but others are more compartmentalised but we should value everyone.

@TizerorFizz you should replace "Often" with "Sometimes". Many mathematically-able students are all-rounders. I am one of the many and we are highly valued in the workplace - we can do the tech and stats and we can also communicate well verbally and in writing.

@reazon Yes. Sometimes is probably more accurate but DH has spent a lifetime correcting English in written reports by qualified engineers. Plus how many dc are capable of studying MFLs at a high level? Very few. Many people are not all rounders but I’ve met a few who are very good at everything. Just really bright people.

My results would suggest STEM were easier than none STEM.

Almost certainly because that’s the way my brain is wired.

STEM subjects are probably less forgiving in the mid range. If you don’t get it, there's not a lot you can do. You can’t waffle your way through integration. If you don’t get it as a concept you’ll get you’ll get no marks. You can waffle your way through an English essay and get a some marks.

exceptional all rounders are suited to the IB qualification.

@ShanghaiDiva In my area no school offers it. So being suited and doing it are two different things and IB doesn’t enhance university applications. It’s expensive to deliver so none of the county grammars in my LA offer it. I doubt parents of the brightest all rounders care that much. Even Wycombe Abbey doesn’t offer it.

As I said, in my DC high performing school where most get 8/9 for Matgs and science at GCSE, many struggle to get above a 7 at GCSE English. (This could partly be due to the questionable nature of the GCSE English language paper)
Re A Levels and what the able do, yes some are clearly more able in one direction and choose subjects in that area. But as has also been said, lots are capable in all directions. There has been a big move towards Maths and Sciences. The uptake at A level has been huge as STEM careers are seen as a better bet and schools have encouraged students in that direction. Consequently you often do find the most able doing Maths and related subjects and increasingly those who are good at both go in that direction, not towards humanities or languages. Of course it’s not always the case but on a macro level the data shows huge numbers doing Maths A level,

There is a better understanding too these days that A Level maths from a starting point of 6/7 will be a struggle. Fewer with 6s start it. So they head towards social sciences and humanities. Often those with the 8/9 in English also have it in Maths. And Maths/Sci/Econ/ Comp Sci are the subjects of the moment. The arts are in decline. Languages are in decline. Generalising of course.

As I said before, humanities can be more accessible for those with a 5/6 at GCSE. They will be able to engage in the lesson and whilst they probably won’t be accessing the top grades, a C might be achieved. It is also probably true that the v top grades of A star is hard to achieve. Small percentages seem to achieve this in humanities - is that because it is very hard or because fewer top students take these subjects? Possibly a bit of both.

I suspect it’s some of the social sciences that suck up some of the weaker A Level students (amongst v capable students of course) but also these days, more of the borderline students prob do a mix of Brec and just one or possibly 2 A levels - a good move for them.