Just how hard are Maths and Science A levels?

[Flarerave]

Interested on views in light of recent results. Keep hearing how much harder maths and science a levels are than other subjects. Have a Y11 who will be selecting courses next year... an all rounder scoring 7-9 across board. Seems for best chance of RG degree you need to be aiming for 3A predictions. Wondering if this is more achievable with non STEM subjects?

All A levels are hard. My DC between the three of them have taken: Maths, music, art, chemistry, biology and geography.
For my DCs boards this is what they found:
Maths is content, concept and accuracy based
Chemistry is much harder than GCSE, but the papers are straightforward in a non application way. But the grade boundaries are very high, so it's hard to get top grades unless you are very accurate, there is no room for silly errors
Biology is a tonne of content, non if which is that difficult (except maybe the gene/ inheritance bits) but the papers are very application based and have v low grade boundaries. Sometimes its hard ti k own what the question is even asking.
Art is just hell. Solid 2 years of wall to wall effort..
Music is vv tough, you need excellent composition, and performance slills and also be able to write essays and do theory to a high level (and write music from just hearing it!!)
Geography is easy in concept but hard to score highly on unless you know a whole heap of case studies leading to a lot of rote learning. Plus the essays can be about obscure parts of the curriculum..
I think it is safe to say all A levels present challenges, in very different ways.

But maybe he was better at PD or enjoyed it more? DD would not have done very well at maths A level, but DS would have struggled with her choice of Eng lit.

The maths at year 10 thing is a red herring surely. A very small % of DC go to private school, and it's not common even in private schools to take maths GCSE in year 10 (I have never heard of it and I know students and teachers at a number of private schools).

Maths is I think the most popular A level, and there will be thus a decent range of abilities which may (well, must) skew the results – compared to, say, music which is probably taken mostly by people who are pretty good at it.

Btw @PrincessOfPreschool if you are advising your DC to take (say) history, French and biology then that's perhaps not the best advice; a single science is not going to be very useful as an outlying subject; it is possible to do a science degree with just one science A level but it's going to be harder. Two sciences and an essay subject might be better. Most DC IME now what they like and what they are good at by the time they are 16.

I was real all-rounder at school, straight As at GCSE (before A* existed) and did science A-Levels because school persuaded me it was the best route to a good career. I hated them, didn’t work and did pretty badly. With hindsight I should have chosen something I really enjoyed.

When DC were choosing A-Levels I suggested they drew a venn diagram with ‘Subjects I enjoy’ ‘Subjects I can do well at’ and ‘Subjects that I need to include for a future career’. It was a good starting point to firm/reject subjects.

Things worth considering are that Maths (and sometimes FM) is almost always needed for top Economics and Computer Science degree courses. Chemistry almost always needed for Medicine. If there’s any possibility that DC might consider those degrees they should bear that in mind.

But yes, what is ‘easy’ for some students is horribly difficult for others. Focus on skill sets.

My advice would be: if you need a grade A at A level and nothing less will do, don't take A level maths from a starting point of anything less than a grade 9 at GCSE. And don't in any event take A level maths from a starting point of less than grade 8 at GCSE (unless maths is your best subject despite "only" getting a grade 7 at GCSE).

I found the jump from gcse maths to a level maths really hard. I remember crying that I couldn’t do it. Ended up with a maths degree and now a qualified actuary 😆

I did biology maths further maths and chemistry and found chemistry hardest. So can’t really comment. But I do wish that I’d done a humanities a level too either English lit or history. Not because I think they’re easier they’re just different and I think would’ve mixed it up a bit. Different ways of thinking and learning.

DS2 wants to do Spanish and Maths (definitely), and either Geography, Economics or Chemistry. Still undecided! A couple of weeks before sixth form. His school make them do 4 for one year so he can drop one though in not sure why it takes a year to be sure. Only subject he loves is Spanish, he extremely good at physics and computer science but says they are boring. Maths he is very good at and reckons he can tolerate it.

DD wants to do English, History and one other subject still undecided with 2 weeks to go. She applied under Chem but she's not sure about it. Would like French (she thinks!) but school don't offer it and I think her GCSE grade will put her off. Until January, she wanted to do Chem, Bio and Maths! She only knew she didn't want to do Art! Considering Psych, Politics, Physics. She's all over the place.

They will be 17 in October so well past 16. They are both currently all rounders, don't know what they want to do at uni yet, don't know what job they want to do. I would say they are fairly normal teens!

Sorry previous post was @clary

Get them to look at their specifications (the 6rh form will have the exam board on detail or the website) - so they can look at the structure of the exams and the topics and see what they think, if they're all rounders I'd keep A-level broad. Spanish and Maths and Geography and Econ is a strong combo for multiple directions in the future. I'd also say English and History work well together, Psychology is a strong A-level (even if you don't further do psych in the future and she can easily do another science with those for Chemistry or Physics). The combos don't have to be standard, and they may decide to continue 4, if they're doing well by the end of next year, there's no point dropping it, you might as well do all 4, my school also made us do 4 but no option to drop which I personally am now glad about. Politics is another heavy subject but very useful for life skills and understanding the world it works really well with Psych, English and History but if she wanted to mix it up I'd add Chemistry in or Physics and swap out the one she's least looking forward to. Ask current teachers about the A-level spec and also future teachers if it's a different school, speak to people getting As and A-stars and what they feel and look online and what you'll be doing espeically the specific modules for something like History and English the books and Psych paper 3 is different options as well individual to each school. But even paper 1 and 2 are very different topics so see how you feel about the modules, do the subjects match up with what you think of them, do you think you'll enjoy them or what will you enjoy about these subjects, look at coursework, do you look at psychology and then think actually sociology is more for me, I did that. Also try and at least eliminate jobs or careers or university degrees you don't want to do and look on UCAS, career websites and think of things you may want to do.

I don't think any A Levels are easy. Maths and Science tend to have higher entry requirements than some others though, and I wouldn't suggest trying to do them with less than a 7 at GCSE. After that I think the main consideration is enjoyment of the subject (do you want to do it 4-5 times a week for 2 years?) coupled with, if applicable/known, career aspiration.

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I did French, Maths and Economics A Levels back in the day. It was a good way to keep my options open 😉

Thanks for the help guys. Sorry to derail thread.

I would agree with PPs that no less than 8/9 in maths if you want A*A and even B.

Echoing others who say easiness is subjective, and ones persons strengths differ from others.

I got a (suprise) A at GCSE MFL. I can still remember my teachers face when Dad joked to the teacher that I could do A level now. A level
language would have been a disaster. Sciences were pretty good - and not a massive amount of work outside homework and revision post Easter for me. I probably spent longer on GCSE English homework/revision than I did on any of my a level subjects.

Some A levels are academic and others not. An A grade in photography could be achieved by many more people than an A grade in maths.

Maths A level is hard, both mine did it and it didn’t come naturally to either, they had to work. At both their schools they recommended 8 or above. There is done evidence (I believe) that if you’re strong in algebra you have a better chance of coping with the course. Sciences are also imo academic and not easy.

I have encouraged mine to do the subjects that interest them but also they needed to look at where they want to go. I encouraged purer more traditional subjects eg history. You’re not going to get an offer to study an academic subject at a good uni with 3 A stars in drama, photography and business studies.

You’re not going to get an offer to study an academic subject at a good uni with 3 A stars in drama, photography and business studies.

@1apenny2apenny I guess that's true if by “academic subject” you mean any science, any MFL, English lit, history (probably, tho A level not essential) geography, music, engineering, medicine, vet, dental.

Not so much because the A levels you mention are not academic (whatever that means) but more because all of those degrees require specific subjects to be taken at A level (as mentioned on here by a number of ppl), which are not in your list.

But for sure you could get an offer at a good uni to study any of those chosen A level subjects, or a subject like sociology or criminology or marketing or any of lots of other degrees that require no specific subject choice at A level.

The important thing when choosing A level subjects is to keep open the doors you might want to go through.

I really agree with this. Curious to see when people do maths, FM and a social science or humanity and the latter is the lower grade. Maths, chem, physics you risk falling off the bottom and crashing completely. But getting the very highest grades in history or English lit or MFL is very tough because so many different skills are involved and it’s not just being right.

Dc got 9s in maths and physics at GCSE but found it a big step up at A level.

Was fine with Maths but found Physics very hard. Did end up with A in both.

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Not sure i agree with you. Do you have evidence about how hard or not it is to get an A in Photography!? How do you know that the anyone could get an A in it... I doubt it very much.
My DS1 did Art. And I can tell you it was as hard for him to achieve his A star in Art as it was in Biology.
It does annoy when people bash the creative A levels. They are not easy options.

I’d have as little chance of an A* in Photography as Maths, I know that.

Was I bashing creative subjects? No I wasn’t. I find that people’s DC who do them often seem to see it this way for some reason.

It is a different skills set and should be acknowledged as so. However I hold on to the view that more people could have a chance at say photography than say maths, in my mind that makes it more valuable. Uni offers reflect this. I reckon I could make a good grade in photography but not Art or Maths.

Maths is really hard IMO OP the students often come out the exams saying they thought they knew all the content but they questions are done so you first have to spend a lot of time working out what exactly the are asking you. In DS's school at least there does not seem to be nearly enough opportunity to learn how to tackle questions like this because all the time is taken up on content and they just aren't prepared. DS got a 9 at GCSE and B in maths despite working very hard and getting 70% overall.

Comp sci on the other hand he found much easier and barely revised for. I agree with a PP that photography is almost certainly easier having seen how basic the GCSE is. Psychology is another one I thought seemed easier having seen some papers. Physics again though is very hard. He should definitely do what he loves though as he is always likely to do better in that.

DH is a maths person as is DC and I’m told that if you are of the right mind you instinctively know what you are being asked. He spotted it (apparently) in DC at a very early age. I wouldn’t know myself as the current year 9 homework defeated me the other week but I guess it’s one of the things that makes maths ‘easy’ if it clicks in your brain.

I would have said that, but met two people this week A*s in maths A/B in psych. It doesn’t always follow…

This! DD took both chemistry and biology at A level last year and got high As in both. In her view there was a big jump from GCSE to A level chemistry, some topics were hard to grasp, but once you understand a topic you can relatively easily get high marks. Biology has lots of content but is much easier to understand. However, exam questions have to be tackled in a very prescriptive way, and it isn't always easy to see what questions are getting at. Good biology results are often as much about understanding what is wanted as they are about knowing the material.
(Edited because I messed up formatting!)

Humanities offers for Oxford are AAA whereas STEM offers feature one or more A*s depending upon the degree. This could be because there are slightly more variables at play in A level history, English etc on the day. However, a physicist would probably find history A level hard and vice versa because they require different skills and ways of thinking.