Page 2 | DD didn’t do well second year degree.

Stressedoutmum04 · 2025-07-01T16:56:24+00:00

DD is at Oxbridge studying economics but narrowly missed a 2:1 second year. (59.75%). Counts for 30% Really worried for her as she wanted to maybe do a masters as she wants to do another internship next summer as she didn’t get her dream internship this year. Is all hope lost for her- I’m really disappointed too :(. She was a bright cookie at A level

poetryandwine · 04/07/2025 13:21

MsPengiuns · 04/07/2025 12:51

I read Economics at Cambridge without any Maths A levels with people who often had top grades at Maths and FM A levels and my DD is reading E&M at Oxford. E&M is 100% finals as was Cambridge Economics in my day so this has to be Cambridge Economics.

I am far more concerned my DD enjoys her time there than what grade she comes out with and in only one job I have had would I say the grade was considered. Rest of the time its tested at interview for economics roles and goes on past experience as well as degree. Obviously academia is different. Some graduate schemes may stipulate a grade but you can pretty much always enter another route.

I got through fine by avoiding the maths heavy topics / subjects - chose options and a dissertation which are not mathematical and on the theory papers you certainly used to be able to choose which topics you answered. It may have changed but the options are almost identical to when I did it.

The other option is to change to another subject like law or management but given she's very close I would just be selective with options / topics and keep going. The third year used to be less maths based than the second, around 1/4 maths in second year to could mostly be avoided in year 3. Maybe discuss with her tutors. How others find the workload is something I would ignore - at every stage in education you will get students working a lot and struggling to get grades and everyone on the course will be bright. Some will be able to get a 2:1 without working 24/7 - that doesn't make them poor students or phoney - they are just people who have a good work life balance is important and to whom enjoying university is important and sometimes they've been able to work out what they can minimise and still get the grades. Maybe they are poor students to some academics (thankfully DDs tutors are fine and kind) but for me having a child with good mental health who enjoys university is far more important than getting a First.

Edited

Of course a few can meet their goals without much effort, and kudos to them. I didn’t mean them. Threads are started every year by mums of Oxbridge students trying frantically to fit in with an ethos of effortless superiority. Tutors reply that they are poised to help, and OP says, essentially, that her DC would rather eat rusty nails. It is so sad.

This DD is rightly concerned that without a 2.1 she may not get on to a good Master’s programme in Economics. The point is that she can almost certainly do it, and life in the working world is, gently, much harsher than when you were starting.

I too believe in work-life balance and frequently tell tutees they need to work smarter, not harder, and have more fun. Simply fulfilling expectations on a weekly basis is not all that time consuming and makes everything much easier in the long run. Especially if you are doing PG studies.

The students who appreciate this most have often gone to Australasia or North America, where lots of coursework is required and the ethos is very much work hard/ play hard, for Y3. Those who get into the routine, even at the most demanding universities, often report with amazement pretty much what I’ve just said and sail through Y4 when they rejoin us.

MrMakers · 04/07/2025 13:39

MsPengiuns · 04/07/2025 12:51

I read Economics at Cambridge without any Maths A levels with people who often had top grades at Maths and FM A levels and my DD is reading E&M at Oxford. E&M is 100% finals as was Cambridge Economics in my day so this has to be Cambridge Economics.

I am far more concerned my DD enjoys her time there than what grade she comes out with and in only one job I have had would I say the grade was considered. Rest of the time its tested at interview for economics roles and goes on past experience as well as degree. Obviously academia is different. Some graduate schemes may stipulate a grade but you can pretty much always enter another route.

I got through fine by avoiding the maths heavy topics / subjects - chose options and a dissertation which are not mathematical and on the theory papers you certainly used to be able to choose which topics you answered. It may have changed but the options are almost identical to when I did it.

The other option is to change to another subject like law or management but given she's very close I would just be selective with options / topics and keep going. The third year used to be less maths based than the second, around 1/4 maths in second year to could mostly be avoided in year 3. Maybe discuss with her tutors. How others find the workload is something I would ignore - at every stage in education you will get students working a lot and struggling to get grades and everyone on the course will be bright. Some will be able to get a 2:1 without working 24/7 - that doesn't make them poor students or phoney - they are just people who have a good work life balance is important and to whom enjoying university is important and sometimes they've been able to work out what they can minimise and still get the grades. Maybe they are poor students to some academics (thankfully DDs tutors are fine and kind) but for me having a child with good mental health who enjoys university is far more important than getting a First.

Edited

I assume the curriculum was different or you had a maths catch up class because nowadays they need Maths A-level and FM is highly highly recommended.

MischiefandMayhemManaged · 04/07/2025 13:40

My second year marks were also the worst of my degree! Don't worry. Itll perk up next year - less exams and more course work!

MrMakers · 04/07/2025 13:51

MischiefandMayhemManaged · 04/07/2025 13:40

My second year marks were also the worst of my degree! Don't worry. Itll perk up next year - less exams and more course work!

Cambridge economics final year the only "course work" they have is their mandatory dissertation. The rest are exams.

MischiefandMayhemManaged · 04/07/2025 13:52

MrMakers · 04/07/2025 13:51

Cambridge economics final year the only "course work" they have is their mandatory dissertation. The rest are exams.

Show quote history

Christ, Well now i'm glad i did an engineering degree! had one exam for each final year module, the rest was project work!

MsPengiuns · 04/07/2025 14:09

@MrMakers I am not sure how many had maths and FM A levels in my day - I only know in our group of 4 the other 3 had Maths and FM and I had neither. The first college I visited said Maths and FM A levels were both essential and had a written statement to that effect but when asked about that the Economics professor just said I have no idea who wrote that and I will rip it up and he did. Then he went on about anyone who rows don't apply here I will reject you, you need to apply for Land Economy. Then he said he preferred to take girls and would make me an offer if I applied. In those days professors had a lot of discretion. I actually applied to a different college but another professor who preferred girls and 90% of the intake he chose was female. He married one of his female students before my time.

The first year then had a compulsory Maths exam which you had to pass to go on to Part2 but you could sit it multiple times and same paper more or less each time. I don't think there were any lessons for it, or maybe a few, but you were mostly expected to work it out by yourself. It didn't count. Macro had some maths in but you could avoid by being selective with topics. There was Econometrics in year 2 and stats in year 1 that were compulsory but I found both those OK apart from when they started to try and mathematically prove things but that wasn't part of what was tested. Year 2 was just pass / fail and didn't count. Its very possible there's more Maths in it now but options are almost 100% identical.

Re jobs I think many generations think they had it the hardest ever and things do change over time but overall certainly for someone educated at a state comp I don't think things are harder now. The jobs market at the moment is tough but in my day you got firms were almost everyone was privately educated. It was particularly hard from state comp boys - at my Cambridge college 20% were state and almost all girls. But there has been grade inflation and increase in numbers doing degrees so probably added as a requirement more. Generally there are ways round this though - I have got jobs which say Masters degree preferred without one. I have worked with a lot of people and know a generation of my college's graduates and none of them have had a difficult life from grades they got, most have had very privileged lives and were very lucky to get the chance to go to Oxbridge. Not the highest earners but many were aiming for jobs they enjoyed, not the highest pay and some are quirky and very good at specialist jobs but wouldn't be good at say management so plateau. But generally very happy in those jobs and earn enough to have a good lifestyle. I would have zero concerns about my DD coming out with a lower grade but I am from a background where I know a lot of people without degrees.

TizerorFizz · 04/07/2025 23:11

@MrMakers Well in the early 70s nearly everyone got a 2:2! A first was as rare as hen’s teeth and a minority got a 2:1 . Now it’s the majority. Plus no one needed one. With A level grade inflation a 2:2 became not worth very much and it’s certainly a job cut off issue. It’s just 1% below someone else with an 2:1 isn’t it?

MsPengiuns · 05/07/2025 00:05

The majority (just under two thirds) got 2:1s in mid 1990s with 10 percent getting Firsts and almost all the rest except last 1 percent or so getting 2:2s. Now the Firsts have risen a lot to 30 percent. There was quite a lot of variation by subject which seemed quite random, some subjects then got 30 percent Firsts. I've always found most jobs just ask for an Economics degree for economics jobs. Civil service it's 2:1 for GES but policy jobs are 2:2. That's unchanged though salaries I would say have fallen maybe 40 percent in real terms with austerity and downgrading of posts to lower ranking ones.

The part 2 tripos it says the maths in the micro and macro is the same as in part 1 maths paper. Best thing though is to see what tutor thinks and advises.

Original poster

Stressedoutmum04 · 05/07/2025 03:01

FlySwimmer · 04/07/2025 09:28

It’s been my experience (I’m an academic) that many students find the 2nd year tough, probably the hardest of the three. I think it’s a combo of the work stepping up compared to the 1st year, the fact that many will be more involved in extracurriculars, work etc. now that they’ve been at uni a while, increased social life as again, they’ve built up a social circle, some frustration about content, especially compulsory stuff since they’ve gained knowledge and skills from the 1st year, and (in some cases) a bit of complacency, especially if the 2nd year doesn’t count for much. I’ve seen it a lot, and 2nd years can be the hardest to teach sometimes as their engagement and commitment can be… suboptimal.

For your DD I’d suggest she think hard about 3rd year options and, where possible, playing to her strengths. But, especially from what you’ve said about her maths work, she may also just need to buckle down and make next year as good as possible if she wants her 2.1.

I think DD has found year tough for those reasons!! But she is driven so she knows what she needs to do next year.

Appreciate it depends on the field, but if she buckles up and gets a solid 2:1, does it seem feasible she could do a masters elsewhere at a decent uni. Just looking to keep options open.

OP posts:

Original poster

Stressedoutmum04 · 05/07/2025 03:05

poetryandwine · 04/07/2025 11:53

Another academic here who agrees with @flyswimmer.

Basic arithmetic shows that a 2.1 is still easily achievable - on paper, that is. Without contradicting my certain knowledge that one can scale career heights following a 2.2 (I once helped a desolate tutee compile examples) it is undoubtedly true that life is much easier with a 2.1

It is good that DD knows her problem is with maths. The question is, how is she reacting to this? Many to whom school and perhaps Y1 came very easily come a bit undone when they first struggle. Although they know this is a fallacy and would never admit it, they may feel some shame that the material now requires effort. The vibe of effortless cool certain Oxbridge students cultivate can make this worse. (This is usually phoney or else they are poor students but their impressionable peers don’t see it that way. Only a few can do Oxbridge Economics easily, particularly at C)

With long experience in a maths orientated STEM subject I believe DD can get a 2.1, but that is irrelevant.

She needs to work through her inner obstacles and master the Y2 prerequisites for her Y3 modules, so she can go into them with confidence. Then she needs to engage properly, attending all lectures as well as tutorials, processing them, making a really good effort week by week, acting on feedback and getting difficulties cleared up promptly. This may mean a level of engagement with her tutor(s) that she is not used to, but that tutors are more than fine with as long as tutees are using their time efficiently and working hard.

I rather suspect that proper revision of Y2 and proper, not extraordinary, engagement next year will do the trick. This is not the typical approach by any means nowadays.

Best wishes to DD

Thanks for your message as well. Yes she knows what she needs to do next year. Regrets this year as she potentially wanted to apply for a masters although realised this is next to impossible now at least for 2026.
However it is a good learning lesson and she is trying to squeeze in consolidation this summer around internship.

OP posts:

poetryandwine · 05/07/2025 09:41

Thanks, OP -

I didn’t mean to sound like an ogre, or like I don’ want her to have any fun.

I know from students that when you get into the routine it is not that time consuming and most find the feeling of mastery and the resulting calm worth it. I hope your DD will do well.

BTW, the OpenCouseWare at MIT is generally a great free resource. They have a superb, world rank and mathematically orientated Economics Dept so may have OpenCourseware materials for some course modules aligning to DD’s. The materials usually comprise lecture notes, midterm exams and problem sets, often with solutions. Occasionally the lecturer has agreed to video the entire course.

ThankInPerson · 05/07/2025 12:56

My daughter didn’t do well in the second year. Partly messing around and partly v poor teaching of some modules (Bristol). Spent the first term of the third year applying for jobs. Hugely time-consuming. Managed to get quite a few offers fortunately as she did well with the online tests and interviews. Finally buckled down from the second term and got a 2i and will start work in the City in Sept.

It can be done, and you can get jobs with a 2i from an average uni, thank goodness!

poetryandwine · 05/07/2025 15:36

Every university and indeed School or Department has its own written policy. Mine has only one way of doing things.

MrMakers · 05/07/2025 16:48

poetryandwine · 05/07/2025 15:36

Every university and indeed School or Department has its own written policy. Mine has only one way of doing things.

Cambridge economics is weighed 0:30:70

Bufftailed · 05/07/2025 16:59

Should be fine being that close. Don’t worry

PearlStork · 05/07/2025 17:04

Is she only considering a masters to give her another chance at the dream internship? Presuming it is for penultimate year only students and they offer jobs to those they like? What are the odds of internship/ offer? There might be other routes in without an internship (and an expensive Masters).

Agree with others that applying for grad jobs in final year very time consuming and might be too risky for your DD who needs that 2:1.

I would imagine if she gets a 2:1 from Cambridge she would get most masters offers except the very top ones like LSE etc. Would she consider a "lesser" uni rather than have a years gap.

Original poster

Stressedoutmum04 · 05/07/2025 22:25

PearlStork · 05/07/2025 17:04

Is she only considering a masters to give her another chance at the dream internship? Presuming it is for penultimate year only students and they offer jobs to those they like? What are the odds of internship/ offer? There might be other routes in without an internship (and an expensive Masters).

Agree with others that applying for grad jobs in final year very time consuming and might be too risky for your DD who needs that 2:1.

I would imagine if she gets a 2:1 from Cambridge she would get most masters offers except the very top ones like LSE etc. Would she consider a "lesser" uni rather than have a years gap.

Yes she wants to go into investment banking or similar. So very competitive trying again for summer internship.

She wants to do a Masters if she gets an internship but doesn’t know how far in the rankings she’d have to drop. Feels this years grades don’t do her justice

OP posts:

Lesina · 05/07/2025 22:28

For the lord of all that is holy… she is 20 maybe 21 at the most? Of course all is not lost for her. Let the girl live, she’ll find her way. We need to stop hot housing our children. Let them be.

Pinkissmart · 06/07/2025 13:21

have reminded her she just needs a few more marks for a 2:1

At Oxbridge studying Economics. You didn't 'remind' her at all.

PearlStork · 08/07/2025 09:28

She should look to see if applications need you to list your current uni grades. My DD who has been applying this year (not investment banking though) has found most (including some of the big 4) just need you to tick the box that you are on track for a 2:1 or above (which your DD is). Only one company was interested in actual modules (for a professional qualification) and even then just passes not grades. Doing well in recruitment tests should help too.