DD didn’t do well second year degree.

[Stressedoutmum04]

DD is at Oxbridge studying economics but narrowly missed a 2:1 second year. (59.75%). Counts for 30%

Really worried for her as she wanted to maybe do a masters as she wants to do another internship next summer as she didn’t get her dream internship this year.

Is all hope lost for her- I’m really disappointed too :(. She was a bright cookie at A level

She could be absolutely fine.

It was very very close to 2.1, and if she can improve her marks next year, being 70% she’ll pull it up.

Does she know where she’s dropping marks and how to improve? I’d suggest she speaks to her tutor and make sure she knows how to get back on track for next year, but so long as she addresses it, I really wouldn’t worry.

Everyone at Oxford /Cambridge will have been bright at A level.
She only needs about 60.25%, in fact less but I can't be bothered to do the maths, next year to get her 2.1 overall.

Thanks @Sunnyafternooning her maths has been shaky losing a lot of marks- admittedly she says she could’ve practised more.
She’ll have her tutor meeting soon to discuss results and options next year. Just hope she cheers up soon.

Thanks @TeenToTwenties. very true about them all being bright, think realities hit but have reminded her she just needs a few more marks for a 2:1.

Has she asked for a remark? It might go up

There are no remarks nor resits- been made clear unfortunately.

If it makes you feel better, DS did similar. Was far too busy enjoying being a student and finished year two on 59.8 worth 40%.

He sorted it out in the third year and has just finished with a 2.1.

Good luck to her!

Same with DS1. He concentrated and tried much harder in his third year, averaged a 1st and got a 2.1 overall.

Double check any use of "exit velocity" double weighting of final year marks.

Mine was similar 0.25% below a class boundary in her penultimate year (50% weighting). Gamed it: did a diss which played to her strengths/ chose optional courses carefully (ie those known to give higher marks, didn't include masters students or intercalculating medics and chose essay questions well away from marking tutors interest). It worked.

I was just going on her saying yr2 was 30%.

Mine was all on 4 exams in the third year held over 2 days (maths). Very much live or die.

She should be able to make that up as the 3rd year exams are worth more but she needs to look at the type of modules she did less wel in and then play to her strengths when choosing options for the 3rd year.
So if maths has been the problem, look for modules with less maths in them.

Yes have said that to her. However the compulsory modules are still very mathematical. And the modules which are less mathematical have a lower standard deviation (marks clump together) so the potential to do really well is lower. A dilemma she needs to think about that

My son did economics at LSE, had a horrible 2nd year in COVID and got 56%.

He did a master's in economics as well and is now working. He bounced back in final year. Got a good 2.1, did master's elsewhere (Birmingham) and now got a job.

Your DD will be an Oxbridge economist, she'll be fine.

Honestly I'd rather have a 2.1 from Oxford/Cambridge than a 1st from Nottingham/Bristol etc

Economics at the degree level is tough, especially at top universities.

This is the problem with the ”all degrees are equal” view. Someone with a 2.2 from Oxbridge would get a 1st at most other universities and it seems unfair that they would be excluded from many recruitment schemes/masters etc. My DD is in a similar situation as she’s just scraped 60.3% in her second year at a similarly demanding uni. She really doesn’t want to game her third year module choices but the inconsistencies in marking between them make it advisable. Don’t get me started on the variations between departments at the same university.

@MrMakers Employers will see those grades as similar. Their pen tests will differentiate. From people I know, the 1sts from other top universities do very well and some narrowly missed Oxbridge anyway. They are hardly back numbers and have a great deal to offer employers. Sometimes more than Oxbridge candidates with no work experience and no personality!

A 2:2 is a problem, even from C. My friend’s DC got a 2:2 in maths. Took a year to get a job. Dc is too quirky for employers and, although has high ability, they are not a rounded person. Others will a solid 2:1 from elsewhere did appeal more.

Fair enough. I agree that a 2.2 isn't good news at all. (Though there's a crowd on MN that say a 2.2 is perfectly respectabld. And say that even though they got a 2.2 they are now in high flying careers). Though I expect this was in the past before massive grade inflation?

It’s been my experience (I’m an academic) that many students find the 2nd year tough, probably the hardest of the three. I think it’s a combo of the work stepping up compared to the 1st year, the fact that many will be more involved in extracurriculars, work etc. now that they’ve been at uni a while, increased social life as again, they’ve built up a social circle, some frustration about content, especially compulsory stuff since they’ve gained knowledge and skills from the 1st year, and (in some cases) a bit of complacency, especially if the 2nd year doesn’t count for much. I’ve seen it a lot, and 2nd years can be the hardest to teach sometimes as their engagement and commitment can be… suboptimal.

For your DD I’d suggest she think hard about 3rd year options and, where possible, playing to her strengths. But, especially from what you’ve said about her maths work, she may also just need to buckle down and make next year as good as possible if she wants her 2.1.

So it seems she needs to work hard on the maths.

I assume it's Cambridge because now it's a 0:30:70 system.

There's always 3rd year

There's loads of hope. Can she have a quiet summer getting ahead with some of the concepts for the next year?

Also an academic and agree with every word of @FlySwimmer 's post.

Another academic here who agrees with @flyswimmer.

Basic arithmetic shows that a 2.1 is still easily achievable - on paper, that is. Without contradicting my certain knowledge that one can scale career heights following a 2.2 (I once helped a desolate tutee compile examples) it is undoubtedly true that life is much easier with a 2.1

It is good that DD knows her problem is with maths. The question is, how is she reacting to this? Many to whom school and perhaps Y1 came very easily come a bit undone when they first struggle. Although they know this is a fallacy and would never admit it, they may feel some shame that the material now requires effort. The vibe of effortless cool certain Oxbridge students cultivate can make this worse. (This is usually phoney or else they are poor students but their impressionable peers don’t see it that way. Only a few can do Oxbridge Economics easily, particularly at C)

With long experience in a maths orientated STEM subject I believe DD can get a 2.1, but that is irrelevant.

She needs to work through her inner obstacles and master the Y2 prerequisites for her Y3 modules, so she can go into them with confidence. Then she needs to engage properly, attending all lectures as well as tutorials, processing them, making a really good effort week by week, acting on feedback and getting difficulties cleared up promptly. This may mean a level of engagement with her tutor(s) that she is not used to, but that tutors are more than fine with as long as tutees are using their time efficiently and working hard.

I rather suspect that proper revision of Y2 and proper, not extraordinary, engagement next year will do the trick. This is not the typical approach by any means nowadays.

Best wishes to DD

I read Economics at Cambridge without any Maths A levels with people who often had top grades at Maths and FM A levels and my DD is reading E&M at Oxford. E&M is 100% finals as was Cambridge Economics in my day so this has to be Cambridge Economics.

I am far more concerned my DD enjoys her time there than what grade she comes out with and in only one job I have had would I say the grade was considered. Rest of the time its tested at interview for economics roles and goes on past experience as well as degree. Obviously academia is different. Some graduate schemes may stipulate a grade but you can pretty much always enter another route.

I got through fine by avoiding the maths heavy topics / subjects - chose options and a dissertation which are not mathematical and on the theory papers you certainly used to be able to choose which topics you answered. It may have changed but the options are almost identical to when I did it.

The other option is to change to another subject like law or management but given she's very close I would just be selective with options / topics and keep going. The third year used to be less maths based than the second, around 1/4 maths in second year to could mostly be avoided in year 3. Maybe discuss with her tutors. How others find the workload is something I would ignore - at every stage in education you will get students working a lot and struggling to get grades and everyone on the course will be bright. Some will be able to get a 2:1 without working 24/7 - that doesn't make them poor students or phoney - they are just people who have a good work life balance is important and to whom enjoying university is important and sometimes they've been able to work out what they can minimise and still get the grades. Maybe they are poor students to some academics (thankfully DDs tutors are fine and kind) but for me having a child with good mental health who enjoys university is far more important than getting a First.