Oxford open day next week :how are we supposed to fit it all in? How do we know which colleges to look at

[Opendaymaddnes]

Hello I'm trying to get my head around the open day and distances. The subject talk is quite early but it looks like we could spend all day at the subject talk area meeting tutors but we need to look at accommodation options also and colleges.

I've googled the best colleges for her subject and I hope to visit three? Does this sound like a plan? Is this what uther people do?

Ds eliminated one lovely college for that reason! He has a bit of a dicky tummy and the horror of a dash down a staircase, across a quad and up another to get to a loo… which may then be occupied - eeeeeeek!!

I’m not surprised!

@Opendaymaddnes I think you’re right that there is some luck involved. It’s an academic pool that they’re selecting from to begin with, but the pool of applicants is much larger than the numbers they can take. While there will be some in that pool who clearly stand out as stronger candidates than others, I have always thought that quite a lot of the choices about who gets places vs who doesn’t must be quite marginal within that context. I do think there’s a lot of mythologising that still goes on around Oxbridge; yes, the students are obviously ‘bright’ in the sense of being particularly good at/committed to their chosen subject(s) but there’s rarely the magic of ‘genius’ there (whatever that is!).

I would suggest that your child makes a loose plan for the day, perhaps to have a good look around about three colleges that they like the sound of, but also allow time for a wander and to pop into other colleges. Ultimately, I applied to the college I thought was prettiest without knowing much about it apart from basics like it did my course. Ridiculous on reflection but I was pretty blase about the whole thing and luckily it ended up being a good choice!

I think it’s actually the opposite - at least for the STEM subjects. The standard offers make it sound that all you really need is one or two A stars.
However, if you look at the statistics of offers/acceptances - you see that over 95% of offers are received by kids with four AAAA stars.

And it makes sense: in order to achieve a high grades in MAT/PAT/BMSAT - and then pass few hours of subject-specific problem solving interviews with college tutors - you really need to be at A star + level for your chosen subject.

So - OP, the admissions less about ‘luck’, and more about actual deep interest and aptitude for the subject. And, sure, some ‘luck’ on top of that - as in - show up to exam on time; not be phased by stress; not freeze up at interviews.

@josuk really!!

I think pyscology is stem and she's not doing three a levels.

I mean she's doing three not four a levels, but she's predicted stars but not 4

Just to be clear, here are the stats from Oxford. 95% do not have 4 A stars!

I might be overrated, but it is usually cheaper. My daughter went to New College and had no access to a kitchen at all in first year. Meals in Hall were quite expensive. She had to get very creative with a kettle to make affordable meals.

@irregularegular thank you!

It's also worth bearing in mind that the expectations will vary according to school. If you are at Eton, then you probably do need straight 9s, or very close. If you are from a struggling state school, then absolutely not. The GCSE scores are "contextualised" relative to the distribution of grades of applicants from similar schools.

Not many more. The majority accept the offers and get the grades. Unlike many other universities.

Agreed!

Though also bear in mind that the majority of students (including Oxford offer holders ) do not get their predicted grades. So the number predicted all A star will be somewhat higher than those who get them.

And to those who have said there is some luck involved - of course there is! I've been making admissions decisions for over 20 years. We absolutely do our best to pick those with greatest academic potential. But we simply dont have the information to make perfect decisions. It would be ridiculous to claim that the decisions are infallible and that there isn't some luck of the draw involved at the margins. I'm sure there are many applicants who would be very good students who we are not able to give offers to.

@Opendaymaddnes if your daughter is predicted three A stars - it’s great. And she does not need more than 3.
For the STEM subjects like physics, engineering, computing, etc - kids often need 4 - as in Maths/Further Maths, and two sciences.

The stats @irregularegular posted are misleading - as any stats can be if you don’t look deeper.
For starters - these are APPLICANTS, not offers, and just one year of data.

So - for the total of Oxford:
… 2023

Applicants with 3+ A stars - 33%
Offers with 3 A stars - 60%

…2024
Applicants 3+ A stars - 21%
Offers 3+ A stars - 47+

Then you have to dig deeper and actually see the stats for individual courses - and you quickly realise that there is a big difference in admissions rates between, say Music, English, History with 30-40% admission rates - and Economics, Maths, Physics with 5-15% admission rates….

So, if you do find admissions rate for the subjects - which isn’t easy, but possible - you will see that in the most competitive courses with only a small percentage admitted, 80-90% of offers does go to kids with all A stars predicted. It is just common sense.
In less competitive subjects it is not the case - hence the total stats, that are misleading.

Psychology at Oxford is a small course, and is competitive, with about 15% acceptance.
Your daughter has the grades for it - so hope she gives it a try. The entrance test is really important and it’s helpful to practice over the summer. As well as read up on what the interviews would entail.

@irregularegular The info from Oxford is probably the most reliable though. @josukThe stats from Oxford are NOT misleading if you look at offers. They are not a majority going to predicted 3 A stars!

Also, although not relevant here, do not assume FM is not highly desirable for Engineering at Oxford. Haven’t checked the stats but it would be a massive catch up if you didn’t have it.

@josuk and everyone else this has been so helpful.

I'm not a maths person but I did see the psychology course is statistic heavy so dd will become an expert in it if she does it.

What I'm not understanding now though is we all know Oxford is hard to get into etc but then how come some families get multiple children in and also themselves a poster here is talking about herself, her sister who went and now children?
If 800 odd are going for a small amount of places that's a hell of a win?

@MaturingCheeseball in what ways are the interviews hard?

Of course I appreciate they will be but I what way? The apprentice Alan sugar type way? Cold unsmiling person telling them they are fakes?

Sure, but that's the case for everything. You need luck in your A-levels, luck for the entrance exam, luck at the interview -- everyone fucks up from time to time. If you don't do yourself justice at one of these, it's a pity, but obviously the interviewers aren't psychic. Every time I've interviewed there's probably been someone having an off day and under-performing, but we can only go on what's in front of us.

@TizerorFizz what's FM?

Is that further maths at gcse?

They say they want 7 for maths pyscology she got an 8 and did the FM gcse

My dd is on the shyer side, if she was made to feel comfortable and got into a discussion she should be fine but she's not "chatty".

You can look at YouTube interviews. I think what trips up some candidates is underestimating that it is an academic interview, and not a walk-through of their application/personal statement.

And candidates are pushed to think - so they’re not being tested on what they know or have studied already.

My dc aren’t particularly confident or chatty. I don’t think there’s much time for social chit-chat in an interview anyway!

@josuk I didnt post any statistics

She doesn't need to be chatty. She does need to say something (!), but the interviewer will work hard to draw her out. As someone else said, it is worth looking at mock interviews online.

@Opendaymaddnes It’s Further Maths. For degrees that are very maths based they see FM as being good prep. They don’t necessarily require it because not all schools offer it. However if the school does, Engineering applicants would be well advised to take it. The majority will have it and there’s a steep learning curve if you don’t.

Well, obviously, yes. But there are plenty of people who seem to like to spread the idea that there is some mythical beast that Oxford are looking for and if one very bright student doesn't get in and another does, then it is because the first didn't have some special Oxford quality. I thnk the reality is more mundane than that.

In what ways are the interviews hard?

Of course I appreciate they will be but I what way? The apprentice Alan sugar type way? Cold unsmiling person telling them they are fakes?

Absolutely not!

Tricky academic questions that are designed to make them think about something they have not been taught or thought about before, and that they will need to think through "live", with prompts from the interviewer when needed. And if they are comfortable with the first question, then they will ask a harder follow up question. Until it becomes really hard!