BSc Economics - is it worth applying without exceeding entry requirements

[planestrainsautomobiles]

Visited Bath & Bristol Open Days this past weekend. DS has his predicted grades - A star Maths, A Economics, A Physics and B Further Maths, av. GCSE grade is 8.5.

He was very happy on Thursday evening when his PGs were confirmed but sorely disappointed when he was told at Bath only to apply with at least 2 A stars and Bristol told him not to apply for straight Economics and pointed us in the direction of their Business School courses (Accounting, etc).

Is it a bad strategy to look at Unis such as St A, Bath, Bristol, Notts where he meets the entry reqts (all A*AA) but doesn't exceed them?

He really liked Bristol, would applying for Economics & Finance or Economics & Econometrics be less competitive, i.e. looking at students with only 1 x A Star or would he need to look at Accounting & Finance? Does anyone have any insight?

If he writes to the admissions teams for each Uni will they provide him an honest opinion of how likely he is to achieve an offer? I don't want him to waste all his choices. His Insurance choice is likely to be York.

He is doing well with all the extracurriculars but Bristol told us they don't read the PS, decisions are made solely on A Levels and GCSEs.

One final qn - he loves the sound of St Andrews, smaller & compact, plentiful football leagues, family in Fife & cheap golf! Is St Andrews a better bet in terms of his grades? Is it true they look favorably at RUK students?

Thank you for any advice. Sorry for the long post!!

Predicted grades can still be revised especially if your DS offers to do another mock exam so that's worth trying as long as he would meet the offer requirements.

My DD applied for Economics including Bristol, Bath but had 3 A stars predicted and no FM and she got offers from both. State but sixth form not on Bristols list but did meet Baths contextual requirements though initial offer was non contextual. Joint courses are often a grade lower offer and would presume slightly easier to get an offer for.

The other option would be to drop the 4th A level and focus on getting A stars in the others. But would need predicted grades up.

St Andrews didn't apply to but I think it's more competitive than Bristol and Bath, has massively gone up since the royals went there. Though you don't need offers from all 5 and with economics due to quantities applying, many with all A stars predicted people generally don't get all 5 and occasionally get none with 4 A stars.

You can also add universities in stages. DD initially just had Oxford and LSE then a month later added Bristol then after Oxford offer added Bath. This gives you chance to adjust universities based on offers.

If he's being encouraged to look at accounting degrees and is interested in accounting has he thought about a Level 7 apprenticeship and going straight into work with study and obtaining a professional qualification that way?

DDs Bristol offer was same as Oxford for Economics so she rang them and asked to switch to Economics and Finance and they did that and offer was 1 grade lower. In the end she had Bath as that was straight Economics at the same as Bristols Economics and Finance but that was as she qualified for contextual there.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/further_education/4901030-just-how-competitive-is-it-to-get-offers-for-an-economics-degree

This thread has an applicant who applied with A star AA and offers. My DDs predicted were raised between now and applying, she had to sit more mocks and persuade the teachers but it does help for the most competitive ones.

My ds has an offer from Bristol for this Sept for economics and finance with Astar Astar A predictions. His GCSE's are all 8's, 9's, he took 11.

He was rejected from Manchester and had offers from Exeter , Leeds and Newcastle.

He didn't consider a straight economics degree because he isn't taking further maths and wasn't predicted 3 x A star - therefore he discounted Bath and would never have considered St Andrews because it's so difficult to achieve a place.

Thank you, that's all very interesting & helpful.

DS has been told by the Head of Maths at college that Warwick are now changing their admissions policy and they will look at TMUA scores before A Level PGs. Based on his TMUA prep at college he thinks he could do well so wants to also include Warwick as one of his 5 choices.

I think a sensible plan is to wait for the TMUA score and if score is > 6.5 to add Warwick to UCAS after the results in mid Nov. I don't know if students find out their score if it is sent direct to the Uni?

Re: predicted grades, the State 6th Form college he is attending has a very strict policy, the PGs are based on their Mocks which he sat after Easter and they only predict an A star if you achieve this in the exam. They will not increase an A to an A star and there is no option to sit further exams in September.

He is definitely set on the uni pathway rather than an apprenticeship (although I think they are fantastic).

OP there will almost certainly be RG universities with economics courses in Clearing, in case that is of interest.

Fair enough - good luck to him!

@planestrainsautomobiles , my dd is at Warwick but in a different faculty. The economics degree is essentially a maths degree, if your ds is predicted a B in further maths he should think if he wants to essentially study maths at Warwick which is what the economics degree is compared to Nottingham etc.

This.

Last year DS had both 1st and 2nd choice as Bath to study Economics, had good grades and expected to be accepted. He wasn't.

On a whim he applied to Cardiff via clearing and is now studying it there (he absolutely loves Cardiff uni which is unexpected as he had his heart set on Bath and they are very very different). There were several unis offering Economics via clearing,

As an aside DS applied to bath for econ. He dropped f maths for AS further maths. Can do a grade drop if he gets an A in that too. He was predicted A*s though.
Another uni to look at is Lancaster. Top 10 but under the radar and more achievable offers. Very impressive econ department. Encourage the year out like Bath.

Hi @planestrainsautomobiles as others say, economics is particularly competitive atm. I have mentioned this on other threads, but I know of a YP who had grades in hand of A-star AAA in (IIRC) maths, FM, econ and ? business. They were rejected by LSE, Imperial, UCL and Leeds and received an offer from Nottingham. IMHO they were ill-advised to list so many aspirational unis.
If Bristol and Bath are advising your DS not to apply (esp with the B in FM) then that’s useful advice which he should take on board.

One aspirational choice is not a bad thing so if he really loved B and B then he could list one, or he could follow their advice and apply for the other courses instead. Then maybe he should look at unis with a lower offer – and perhaps contact the admissions team to ask. He can indeed add unis later (up to five obvs) as long as he is within the UCAS deadline.

Where are you btw that both Bristol and St A area on the list? Either one of them is a very long journey, or both are a fair way away. I’m not sure where you would live that would be less than four hours from both. Or else a lot further from one IYSWIM! So unless you love a loooong drive I might be tempted to knock the further away one off the list.

I know this notion is viewed as ridiculous by plenty on MN (“go to the uni you love, regardless of where it is!”) but I also know a number of ppl IRL who wish their DC had chosen closer unis and got a bit fed up of overnighting in Premier Inns when dropping off. Both my uni DC were/are relatively close and this has been a big plus in a number of ways, and never a bad thing as far as I can think (tho I do see that some YP might want to break away and try a new area!).

(apols for essay)

As others say, Economics is insanely competitive. Lots with 3 or 4 x A star predictions don’t get offers at places like St As and Bath. And the B in FM isn’t going to help him be competitive.

That said, how about applying to some not quite so competitive RGs for Econ and putting Econ with something else for one or two of the most popular places. To be honest, straight Econ at a top place with those predicted grades, esp the B in FM probably is a wasted application - in the end it’s supply and demand and there will be far too many applicants with grades that exceed what he has.

The question is how much he wants straight Econ and how much he wants those places.

And the TMUA is most likely to distinguish between candidates with perfect A Level predictions, to be honest. That’s the trouble..there are so many of them.

Re Warwick , I think you do have to be realistic about the Maths. Being predicted a B in FM isn’t likely to result in an offer, even if they manage to pull a better TMUA out of the bag than those with better A Level predictions.

But then, you’ve got 5 choices, so there’s nothing to stop them going for one which really is a very outside chance….but it’s important they know that’s the case.

And writing to individual unis probably won’t help much. They won’t put in writing that they won’t make offers to people with X grades. They might give yo7 figures for this year…and by rooting around you can often find that X% got A or A* above in FM who secured an offer. The trouble with figures is you don’t know if the lower offers went to contextual candidates.

Those places giving verbal advice at Open Days are trying to help. They know Econ is having a massive popular moment and that they can’t make offers to people with the minimum entry grades. At the same time, they don’t want to raise the standard offer because that can close the door to contextual candidates and make things more tricky in results day.

Econ from a uni which is considered a tier down, is still a very highly regarded degree. Or consider a joint degree if place is really important. Hard choices to make. Woukd be a good example for discussing the allocation of scarce resources in an economics interview!

Different subject but also very very competitive, we asked at the Warwick open day and they were very clear that they would only look at the best 3 A Levels and best 8 GCSEs. They would not look at EPC as they consider it a privilege to be able to take it.

On 24 June UAT-UK will be publishing further and hopefully final details on which Economics undergraduate courses will be requiring the TMUA for 2026 entry. Cambridge, LSE, UCL and most probably Bristol will be requiring the TMUA and Warwick prefers it.

Anyone thinking of applying for a competitive Economics degree ought to be preparing the TMUA and the most obvious strategy is to take it at the October setting and to finalise the UCAS application after receiving results from the TMUA and with advice from a knowledgeable university guidance counsellor.

My daughter told me the day after our drive back from Aberystwyth to Oxfordshire that she'd been sat in the car thinking "Why didn't I go to Reading?" I admitted the thought had crossed my mind too!

She's very happy at Aber though.

Economics is madly competitive so I think Bath and Bristol are trying to save your DS future anguish of 4- 5 rejections. My DS did economics A level and wrote off an econ degree because he loved it at A level but understood it has moved towards being very maths based. He could apply for BA Economics without quite such stellar grades. DS's friend who had all grade 9s at GCSE and 3A star predictions got rejected by 3 unis (not Bath or Bristol) , is now at Warwick and has just graduated with a first. FYI he was rejected by Cambridge, Leeds and UCL ( I think -it might have been KCL) and had offers from York and Warwick. He didn't do FM.

Two things stand out - he does 4 A levels - is he spreading himself too much?

Secondly, the college's policy on predicted grades for UCAS runs entirely counter to the spirit of UCAS predictions and what UCAS themselves advise - but you won't get a college like that to budge, I find.

Of the places you list, your DS stands a good chance with Nottingham - the others are very, very prestige and obstinately choosy! This is not to do your DS down : it's the economics degree landscape. The otehr common bit of advice is offers are more likely in combined degrees .

Thank you for all your very helpful comments, I really appreciate you taking the time to share your advice and experiences in the mad world of UCAS applications / PGs for Econ. We've had an honest and frank chat with him and summarized your points above. Lots to decide over the summer!

Out of curiosity what does he want to do with his economics degree?
If it's investment banking then he needs to looking at target unis and with his PG probably realistically semi target universities.
If it's accounting then you could potentially do any degree as you need to several professional exams after your degree anyway.
As people have said economics is the flavour of the month at the moment, but if you don't actually need to have an economics degree then there are other (possibly less stressful) routes to follow.

The students I know (and I know many) who have done Economics degrees at the most selective universities were all students who loved both Maths and Physics at school. Indeed, I have heard Economics students say that Physics and even Computer Science were better preparation for an Economics degree than Maths (though Maths is of course a requirement).

This is a shame really because it produces a certain 'type' of economist. Society needs a balance of pure mathematicians and more social science focused economists.

To be fair, it's also not true of DS's friend the Warwick economist who has A level history, economics and maths.

I think for the very maths based economics courses requiring the highest grades Maths / FM / Economics / Physics is a common combination and a good one for a maths based course. Econometrics I always found quite like computing.

For the BA Economics courses subjects like History and Politics can be very useful and these degrees are very good preparation for policy / current affairs / international economic development type roles. Its good to have different types of economist and in macroeconomics roles the social science side is at least as important as maths / stats.

I did economics with History, Politics and Economics A levels and 2 I studied with had Maths / FM / Economics and Physics and we all enjoyed the course. I am the only one who stayed in jobs requiring an economics degree. Most people who do economics degrees go on to jobs where the degree being in economics is not essential, accountancy / finance is a popular choice for maths based courses. But it can be hard to know at 18.

Its a shame about the predicted grades - a lot of schools will predict one grade higher than mocks if they think that is achievable on a good day. If your DS hasn't asked the teachers already I would be tempted to encourage him to politely ask saying what Bath and Bristol have said. Exeter may be worth a look.

@Piggywaspushed- curious re your comment about the OPs college approach to predicted grades being counter to the spirit of the UCAS approach.

I thought most schools/colleges based PGs on either lower 6th exams or final year mock exams

This UCAS statement is interesting re predicted grades and seems very common to over predict at the top end saying:

"This is especially the case with the highest grades, with around half of UK 18-year-olds predicted AAA and above in 2024. By contrast, 26% of those accepted last summer secured AAA and above."

www.ucas.com/corporate/news-and-key-documents/news/ucas-pilots-new-reports-to-help-teachers-strengthen-grade-predictions-and-support-student-choice