BSc Economics - is it worth applying without exceeding entry requirements

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Visited Bath & Bristol Open Days this past weekend. DS has his predicted grades - A star Maths, A Economics, A Physics and B Further Maths, av. GCSE grade is 8.5.

He was very happy on Thursday evening when his PGs were confirmed but sorely disappointed when he was told at Bath only to apply with at least 2 A stars and Bristol told him not to apply for straight Economics and pointed us in the direction of their Business School courses (Accounting, etc).

Is it a bad strategy to look at Unis such as St A, Bath, Bristol, Notts where he meets the entry reqts (all A*AA) but doesn't exceed them?

He really liked Bristol, would applying for Economics & Finance or Economics & Econometrics be less competitive, i.e. looking at students with only 1 x A Star or would he need to look at Accounting & Finance? Does anyone have any insight?

If he writes to the admissions teams for each Uni will they provide him an honest opinion of how likely he is to achieve an offer? I don't want him to waste all his choices. His Insurance choice is likely to be York.

He is doing well with all the extracurriculars but Bristol told us they don't read the PS, decisions are made solely on A Levels and GCSEs.

One final qn - he loves the sound of St Andrews, smaller & compact, plentiful football leagues, family in Fife & cheap golf! Is St Andrews a better bet in terms of his grades? Is it true they look favorably at RUK students?

Thank you for any advice. Sorry for the long post!!

The spirit of the UCAS predictions (which is why people like to snark about them) is that they are different from , for example, internal / realist predictions in that they are meant to be 'with a good wind behind you , on your best day' grades. This came up during Covid with student and parental misapprehension about which PGs schools were working from (combined with the madcap algorithms) and also comes up when unis like to bitch about 'inaccurate' predicting by teachers.

For example, I teach many students who have done A grade work across the year in classwork, homework and submitted assessments. They then got a B type grade (bearing in mind grade boundaries can change, too , I'm not sure how some schools profess such unerring accuracy!). Should I predict them a B, or an A? Obviously, the A seems a fairer and more supportive representation.

If a student perform at B grade throughout but then gets an A in the end of year assessments, generally a UCAS grade would be an A, likewise, because they have shown they can do that.

Hope that makes sense!

I don't know about all the grades, sorry, but my mum went to St Andrews, back in the late 50's/early 60's, and she said it was absolutely freezing! They did have lovely long, red, woolen cloaks which helped keep the cold out though. I don't know if the cloaks are still a thing, but I'm sure the weather is pretty much the same but they probably have better insulation and heating in the accommodation now.

The Complete University Guide for Economics has St Andrews as the highest entry standards anywhere (235/235), above Oxbridge and the LSE so I don't think its the safer course to apply for.

www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings/economics?tabletype=full-table&sortby=entry-standards

@MagpiePi yes, the red undergraduate gowns are still very much a thing. It's not THAT cold in St Andrews - at least not if you're Scottish! Very healthy climate, clean air!

@SoilTiller tbf my Mum did come straight from South Africa so it was a bit of a shock to her system.

That’s an interesting report. It’s good to see that they are trying to improve the fairness of the process. However, as everybody knows - but no one seems to be prepared to address - a lot if not all of the unfairness could be eliminated by having a post A level application system.

This in the report is also worth highlighting.

“Part of this research highlights how predicted grades can differ by student context. For example, disadvantaged applicants (defined using the Income Deprivation Affecting Children Index score) achieve further below UCAS predicted grades than advantaged applicants. This research is intended to help schools, colleges and higher education providers further support their students and applicants.”

Yes,but the UCAS guidance is so vague as to be useless to schools! Even within my own school, different teachers do different things....

My dd is at Bristol and is doing a straight Economics degree.
She said that if she had her time again she sound have chosen Economics and management because it is easier
Tbh, it doesn’t make much of a difference in terms of job opportunities , Spring Weeks, Summer internships etc In top investment banks .

Exactly. Investment banks tend to target certain universities more than actual degrees studied.

Interesting. Did I read that right that your DS dropped FM A-level (but presumably still was doing Maths) and instead opted for A/S FM which gave him a grade drop i.e. similar to how EPQs, Core Maths are treated at some unis (where they give a grade drop for an A or A* in these subjects)?

Economics and Econometrics at Bristol was first choice of a DS we know. Very happy with it. It makes no difference to careers at all. Go for it!

DS had 4 A predictions & received offers from Bristol A AA with the A in maths & Manchester for 2xA A.

he didn’t get offers at Edinburgh or Oxford (where he didn’t proceed beyond interview)

He also didn’t have FM and went to a grammar school. Not fsm etc. Might depend on applicants in a given year. I’d also not sniff at management from somewhere like Bath or Bristol either. These universities have high numbers of students who are looking for great jobs and employers target them too.

Economics and Econometrics is great for jobs though not sure whether it would be easier or harder to get an offer for that than Economics, same entry grades. Other joint courses have an entry grade 1 lower and 50 percent economics is fine for jobs requiring an economics degree normally like GES in civil service. If joint would go with what he enjoys. Another option to consider is a year out as a plan B.

The UCAS gives some data. I do find it useful but a bit misleading with the put in your grades for acceptance rate - that is if you have received an offer the chance you will be accepted not the chance of getting an offer which would be more useful to know. Sometimes Freedom of Info requests show that if not on university website. Imperial is the most applications per place for a very specialist course, think that was 35 to 1.
https://digital.ucas.com/coursedisplay/courses/1ca577e0-cdd5-4f14-6c72-075ad86d531b?academicYearId=2025

He needs to apply to a range of unis.

Pick 2 or 3 from the list you gave us (eg Bristol and Bath) and then a few unis with slightly lower entry requirements too. York is a good insurance option, I’d suggest he picks one or two more with those kind of grades.

Aspirational choices are great, but he runs the risk of, even if he secures offers, not meeting his grades. Economics is very competitive and Bath and Bristol are great unis so best to apply with as high PGs as possible. There will be loads of people applying for those courses and many will have higher PGs than him.

Is it worth looking at dropping FM? Being predicted a B may go against him as students will be applying who are predicted straight As.

His college approach to PGs sounds unfair though, because he’ll be up against students who have inflated PGs from their colleges that they have no hope of achieving. This is why AS exams are fairer really, but that’s another thread…..