Applying to Cambridge Maths/Mathematics Undergraduate Degree with 3 or 4 Levels

[Cratos]

My DS is currently studying Further Maths, Maths, Physics and Economics A Levels (Year 12). He decided to apply for Cambridge Maths this October that require a Step exams next Summer during the period that he will also have his A level exams. He is considering dropping Economics to focus on Maths admission test papers. We are wondering if this is a good idea or not. They always say 3 A Levels is enough. But what if one of the 3 A Levels is Further Maths? I should probably add that he is probably going to get good predicted grades for all. Either A s or A stars. Thanks

Sorry Imperial Requirements for Maths are
A Star A Star A (applicants studying three A-levels) or A Star A Star AA (applicants studying four A-levels).
Mumsnet removed the Stars.

@jay55 he doesn't seem to be enjoying Economics that much although he finds it useful.
@Dearover thank you. I will tell my DS about your advice.

We asked Imperial about the grades for 4 A levels at an open day last September- they were very clear that the requirement would be A-star, A-star, A, A for students taking 4, rather than best 3 grades. Your son should definitely clarify with them, but this was very much the advice we were given.

Some of the specialist maths 6th forms allow 3 A levels. at least one does a fourth as an AS at the end of year 12. Dropping Economics to concentrate on getting the best maths, physics and STEP grades makes sense.

My DS has just finished his first year doing maths at Cambridge and his offer was Astar, Astar (maths and further maths), A (physics), 1,1 in STEP and a pass in his 4th A level (chemistry). They didn't want him to drop it but clearly didn't care too much about the grade he got (he appreciated this took the pressure off as the A* he had been predicted in chemistry was on the generous side - he had been getting As through the course but thanks to STEP preparation actually ended up with a B).

BTW STEP is hard but so is Cambridge maths. DS has found it tricky after sailing through maths at school (and UKMT Olympiad medals in years 7-11, BMO1 in year 12 and qualified for BMO2 in year 13). DS has also found that about half the 1st year courses are very applied (e.g. the Dynamics and Relativity course is basically Physics). He prefers pure maths so hopefully will be able to choose his courses more from next year.

No

@Cratos

If you are applying to Oxbridge for maths you are expected to take FM as an aside to your main 3 A Levels of Maths and usually Physics and / or Chemistry plus one other in your DS case Economics

I hope this is clear

As well as explicitly asking at open days you could trawl through the responses to FOI. For example this one for Maths @ Trinity (hope the link works). A few people only did 3 A levels. But look at the v strong interview scores…. I expect all candidates will have been predicted all A stars.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/maths_application_stats_2023_24

If you are at a school where three A levels is the norm, it is usually fine to take three including FM according to the helpful FAQ you yourself posted.

I agree that for clarity the DS should check with some admissions teams

Clear but also incorrect

You are most welcome , OP. Actually I felt the reference to the other thread perhaps relevant for others

If he gets in; the workload will be intense. Showing that he can do 4 A levels may give him and the college that you apply to the confidence that he can work at that pace.

My DS went through all this recently as he has just completed the first year of his Maths degree

Everyone in his FM A level class took 4 A Levels as did everyone he knows on his maths degree.

So I can only advise from first recent hand experience.

I wish your DS all the best @Cratos

If he wants to drop Economics then he should

Yes it’s great to get into Oxbridge but even if he takes 4 A Levels and gets 4 A stars there’s still no guarantee

The top Maths degrees at COWI are very desirable and many apply. But in turn they are more difficult and have a lot of content. The next level down uni wise are slightly easier. DS has friends at various unis so they compare.

Choose the uni and modules in the degree that will suit.

My DS has found his first year at a COWI uni fairly easy to navigate whereas many students have found some modules horrendously difficult.

call admissions, read PP posts, read the links 🔗 and other threads for advice.

Maths degrees are competitive so do the best you can to get into the top unis for Maths but you do need to like the feel of the uni because that’s equally important.

We have loads of great universities in the UK and not everyone chooses to take up their Oxbridge places because they change their minds on the course content or decide to do another subject entirely.

DC have to be true to themselves and the rest will fall into place.

I think the ‘fm doesn’t count as a full A level’ myth arises from some economics and medicine courses. Plus the fact that starting sixth form doing just maths, fm and one other can scupper students who find the jump from gcse maths too much - doing 4 initially is definitely a good idea, until they’re confident of their ability and also clear about their degree choice.

Err no

FM is a very important A Level if you want to do a Maths degree and if a School teaches it you need to take it to be in with a chance at the top unis. And therefore you are expected to do 4 A Levels even though the top 3 grades inclusive of maths and FM are taken into account apart from Imperial who desire 4 A Levels.

obviously if the school does not teach FM as we have stated a few times now then only 3 are expected. I repeat this as PP are not RTFT so picking up on information being left out on PP thst have already been covered. Which is tiresome.

Yes, my DD is looking at medicine courses and a lot of those won't count FM if maths also taken - I didn't realise it was fine to do maths, FM and one other for maths degrees - I have learnt something new!

As FM is a Cambridge requirement, the FAQ from Cambridge Maths that you kindly excerpted upthread wouldn’t make sense if this were the case. It stated clearly that if three A levels is the norm for your school, you are fine with three. It is understood that one will be FM.

BTW I thought your post upthread about how each student needs to find the right university was really lovely

"He took this subject to decide whether or not he wanted to study it as an undergraduate degree but he enjoys Maths and he wants to study Maths now."

That seems like a reasonable justification for studying it just for year 12. As someone else said, if he wants to drop it, doing so before the UCAS application is simpler, as I think that otherwise he would have to contact each uni to tell them of the change.

The big thing to be aware of with Cambridge maths is that they make about twice as many offers as they have places - so an offer is only a 50% chance of a place - and STEP is the decider.

@Lavendersong this is just not true. Through my children I personally know of 30 or so students with only maths, FM and physics A levels doing maths and maths-related degrees at Oxbridge. This includes my own kids. (The reason I know so many is because my kids went to a specialist maths school that only offered those three A levels, and regularly gets 30% of its Y13s into Oxbridge.)

You do need top grades, it’s true. The school told students not to other applying if they weren’t predicted three x A stars. I suspect anyone with much less than that would struggle pretty badly with the course (it’s no picnic with top grades).

But THREE A LEVELS INCLUDING FM IS 100% FINE FOR A MATHS-RELATED DEGREE AT OXBRIDGE. IF YOU ARE DOING THESE THREE SUBJECTS AND ARE ON COURSE FOR A STARS, FEEL FREE TO HAVE A PUNT AT IT.

Sorry for shouting, but I worry that some students who aren’t super confident or plugged in might end up not applying because of this myth that will not die.

Along with the myth that you must have straight grade 9s or it's pointless applying, that those pesky state school students are stealing places at Oxbridge from Milo and Minty which they are entitled to and that anyone hitting contextual markers only has to get DDD & not the published standard offer.

Well if that is the case which obviously it is then I’m absolutely raging for my DS and all the other students at his state school college who had to take 4 A Levels as opposed to your DC and their friends who got away with 3.

I feel slightly nauseous now at the thought that some schools are playing the system by only ‘allowing’ 3 A Levels whereas others expect 4 if you’re taking FM.

MN didn't remove the stars. Adding * before and after a word turns it to Bold typeface so when you put AstarAstarAA it sees that as you wanting to write A AinBold A A
It's a common issue on these threads!

We looked at multiple 6th forms, 5 or 6 in the end, and NONE considered FM to be a less-than ALevel, there was also no suggestion of playinv the system, they dont encourage 4 for sny students.
Cambridge were also very clear when we visited that it is absolutely viewed as an A Level in its own right and not just an add-on.

@POTC what do you mean by FM being less than an A level ?
i certainly have never stated that FM is an add on or less than an A Level as I’ve never thought that at all. So I have no idea why you are quoting me and saying that.

My DS went to a selective sixth form college and those wanting to apply for Maths, CS and some other degrees were encouraged to take 4 A Levels which they all did and most got their A stars and A s and went on to the Universities of their choice.

They all knew that only 3 A Level results were required to get in apart from Imperial (but yes they accept 3 if you went to a school only allowing 3 blah blah)

I’m really confused now as to why they did 4 when so many others get away with 3. It’s just baffling

I don’t really care because DS is fine obviously but it’s interesting to learn about all of this. It has no effect on my DS whatsoever I’m just interested that’s all.