First Trump came for Harvard, now he’s after the rest

Cafeconleche · 2025-05-27T18:41:46+00:00

Trump has just ordered all US embassies worldwide to stop scheduling visa interviews for foreign students with immediate effect. WTF???

ParmaVioletTea · 27/05/2025 20:22

Inevitable. He's an idiot, and is causing such harm to the US economy and democratic institutions.

But he hates anyone thinking, basically.

Radiatorvalves · 27/05/2025 20:27

He’s causing huge harm to academia and to Americas reputation. 2 of DS’s friends have Harvard offers for September. I’ve no idea what they are going to do. My DS was going to be studying (3rd year uni) elsewhere in the US but is very fortunate to be going to Canada. I can’t see things getting much better in the short term.

Nomorepants · 27/05/2025 22:07

My DC has just finished a year abroad in the US. It’s been an incredible experience. I’m sad that stupid decisions might mean others won’t be able to enjoy the same experience next year.

GCAcademic · 27/05/2025 23:29

I hope no one is under any illusion that things will be significantly different here when Reform win the next election.

ellyeth · 27/05/2025 23:33

The man should be certified. I read that other countries are poaching scientists and academics who are believed to have great potential. He is shooting himself in the foot.

RedOtter101 · 27/05/2025 23:34

Wow.

poetryandwine · 28/05/2025 07:28

It is beyond shocking. Harvard has gone to court and won the first round, though it is not at all clear how that will play out.

To what extent is this sincere, even amongst the fanatics, and to what extent is it the next step in the battle against the universities the administration hates?

Tiredalwaystired · 28/05/2025 08:05

GCAcademic · 27/05/2025 23:29

I hope no one is under any illusion that things will be significantly different here when Reform win the next election.

Literally no guarantee of “when”. Four years is a long time in politics. You can stop the scaremongering for now.

Ilovelowry · 28/05/2025 08:08

DD sits the SAT next week. We are all getting a bit worried. Will reassure her that this will play itself out quite quickly like tarrifs etc.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 28/05/2025 08:11

I know it's a waste of time trying to see logic in any of this, but decades ago it was widely understood that it was a really good thing to have international students come to your country to attend university. These were the brightest of the bright, or at any rate the best connected and wealthiest in their country, and when they went home they would (it was hoped) have fond memories of their student days and positive feelings towards the host country, which would pay dividends years later when they were running their home country and its major businesses.

Why have people suddenly started seeing international students as a threat and a nuisance? They come in on a visa so it's much easier to keep track of overstayers than illegal migrants. They pay a small fortune in fees and for the visa, so they're not likely to be benefits tourists.

Is it just xenophobia and ignorance or am I missing something?

andtheworldrollson · 28/05/2025 08:19

Arrogance as well I think

GasperyJacquesRoberts · 28/05/2025 08:22

Anti-intellectualism is a common weapon of the demagogue.

sugarapplelane · 28/05/2025 08:26

I read on social media ( take that as you will) that his youngest son was rejected from Harvard. Many people think that is the reasoning behind his madness.
Whether that’s true or not - I don’t know.

Supima · 28/05/2025 08:31

It’s mad and harmful to the US. What’s very worrying is that Trump is demanding a social media check which I’m sure they will spin as looking for people who are ‘pro-terrorist’ (aka pro Palestinian) but I bet it will encompass any anti Trump sentiments. One of my kids is studying abroad from September. They could have gone to the US, but decided against it because of Trump. One of their friends recently cancelled their placement in the US for the same reason.

GCAcademic · 28/05/2025 08:32

Tiredalwaystired · 28/05/2025 08:05

Literally no guarantee of “when”. Four years is a long time in politics. You can stop the scaremongering for now.

Show quote history

Of course there is no guarantee, but it’s a very strong possibility in my view. Labour are busy wiping themselves out, the Tories have already done so and won’t recover.

And even Labour is going after universities for recruiting international students, with their proposed fine, sorry, levy.

Denial that government interference in universities’ international recruitment could happen in this country is naive. Better that universities prepare for it than get caught out.

Blackcordoroys · 28/05/2025 08:34

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 28/05/2025 08:11

I know it's a waste of time trying to see logic in any of this, but decades ago it was widely understood that it was a really good thing to have international students come to your country to attend university. These were the brightest of the bright, or at any rate the best connected and wealthiest in their country, and when they went home they would (it was hoped) have fond memories of their student days and positive feelings towards the host country, which would pay dividends years later when they were running their home country and its major businesses.

Why have people suddenly started seeing international students as a threat and a nuisance? They come in on a visa so it's much easier to keep track of overstayers than illegal migrants. They pay a small fortune in fees and for the visa, so they're not likely to be benefits tourists.

Is it just xenophobia and ignorance or am I missing something?

(In Britain, not the Us)

this changed when they could bring dependents, and work during their studies and for years after. So one crappy business course = 3 or 4 people working minimum wage jobs and taking up a house in a city. A very different proposition to one student in halls. Where I live residents are furious about the university planning to expand by 10 000 places as it’s hard enough for our young people to get a job and a house.

for the US and Trump, no idea of his motivations

sendsummer · 28/05/2025 08:37

Just come back from Boston. Most postdocs and equivalent in my field there are internationals as the US students usually elect for industry after their PhDs due to higher salaries. The attraction of working at these top level institutes will not diminish with this uncertainty but research (much of which is profitable for the USA) will of course be set back. The reduction in their government grants is also very shortsighted.

poetryandwine · 28/05/2025 08:41

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 28/05/2025 08:11

I know it's a waste of time trying to see logic in any of this, but decades ago it was widely understood that it was a really good thing to have international students come to your country to attend university. These were the brightest of the bright, or at any rate the best connected and wealthiest in their country, and when they went home they would (it was hoped) have fond memories of their student days and positive feelings towards the host country, which would pay dividends years later when they were running their home country and its major businesses.

Why have people suddenly started seeing international students as a threat and a nuisance? They come in on a visa so it's much easier to keep track of overstayers than illegal migrants. They pay a small fortune in fees and for the visa, so they're not likely to be benefits tourists.

Is it just xenophobia and ignorance or am I missing something?

It is just xenophobia and ignorance.

Dove0709 · 28/05/2025 08:44

Ilovelowry · 28/05/2025 08:08

DD sits the SAT next week. We are all getting a bit worried. Will reassure her that this will play itself out quite quickly like tarrifs etc.

Unfortunately this US administration does not like international students, that is not going to be a short term thing! So any decision to study in the USA as an international student comes with additional risks and uncertainties under this current administration.

GCAcademic · 28/05/2025 08:44

Blackcordoroys · 28/05/2025 08:34

(In Britain, not the Us)

this changed when they could bring dependents, and work during their studies and for years after. So one crappy business course = 3 or 4 people working minimum wage jobs and taking up a house in a city. A very different proposition to one student in halls. Where I live residents are furious about the university planning to expand by 10 000 places as it’s hard enough for our young people to get a job and a house.

for the US and Trump, no idea of his motivations

Show quote history

I’d be very interested to know which university thinks it can increase its enrolment by 10,000. This would be an over 20% increase even for the largest of universities, at a time when enrolments are declining across the piece.

The local council also has a say in this, and can restrict that kind of expansion.

SocialEvent · 28/05/2025 08:48

I find this authoritarian Trump action so so shocking. America is publicly promoting xenophobia and undereducation and anti intellectualism. Why isn’t Starmer coming out publicly on all channels, saying come to the UK we will welcome you with open arms, international students? These students pay loads to be here and their massive fees subsidise the UK students. The UK universities sector thanks to the anti intellectualism of successive Uk governments seems to be on the total bones of its arse now. We were as a nation (most of us ) grateful to our scientific academics after Covid vaccines but even that seems to have waned now. Humanities you can totally forget it. Back to business as usual in the UK with underfunding and taking universities completely for granted.

Blackcordoroys · 28/05/2025 08:49

GCAcademic · 28/05/2025 08:44

I’d be very interested to know which university thinks it can increase its enrolment by 10,000. This would be an over 20% increase even for the largest of universities, at a time when enrolments are declining across the piece.

The local council also has a say in this, and can restrict that kind of expansion.

Show quote history

I hope they will!

GCAcademic · 28/05/2025 09:41

SocialEvent · 28/05/2025 08:48

I find this authoritarian Trump action so so shocking. America is publicly promoting xenophobia and undereducation and anti intellectualism. Why isn’t Starmer coming out publicly on all channels, saying come to the UK we will welcome you with open arms, international students? These students pay loads to be here and their massive fees subsidise the UK students. The UK universities sector thanks to the anti intellectualism of successive Uk governments seems to be on the total bones of its arse now. We were as a nation (most of us ) grateful to our scientific academics after Covid vaccines but even that seems to have waned now. Humanities you can totally forget it. Back to business as usual in the UK with underfunding and taking universities completely for granted.

Starmer wants to tax universities for recruiting international students as if they were bad for us, like carbon or sugar. He’s totally capitulated to the Reform voter base.

SocialEvent · 28/05/2025 10:05

Agreed and I’m fucking furious about the ruination of the Labour Party. And the UK’s economic doldrums. And the long term neglect of UK higher education.

scissy · 28/05/2025 14:29

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g in the UK at least, you USED to be able to bring your whole family over if you got a student visa, AND stay up to 12m afterwards and work for a bit? The rules have been tightened up recently (e.g. around families, although it was mostly postgrads who did this). Mainly to appease Reform voters.
However the one example I know personally, the wife is working as a TA in a school locals won't touch with a barge pole (to work in I mean) whilst he does his PhD. Thankfully they are not affected as the rules are not retrospective and we need families like them.