Mr

[KB72]

My son has predicted 4 A* (Maths, Further Maths, Physics and Chemistry). 5 9s and 4 8s in GCSE. Physics and Chem gold medalist at Olympiads and other things. He applied for Mechanical Engg at Bristol university got an alternative offer for Civil which is totally not related to Mechanical Engg. What is expected out of a child? He is distraught and wants to take a gap year but what is the guarantee. Need some advice.
Thanks

You need to just calm him down. Spend time explaining the real world, grades aren’t everything.
Hes obviously very able, but so are many others. I’m guessing this is his first obstacle. Support him. Academics isn’t the be all and end all. He has a lot to learn
Id encourage the gap year. They grow up a lot, wheather that’s travelling, working or both

What other offers is he holding?

Durham

Did he only apply to Bristol and Durham?

He can:

• accept Durham and go there
• accept Durham and see what there is in clearing for Mech Eng (start researching now what might suit)
• take a gap year - if he gets anything like those grades, he will get in for Mech Eng somewhere

It's upsetting for him, and for you, but, as experienced by so many of our DC during their UCAS applications , this is a "welcome to real life - it''s not fair" moment.

My 2c:

1. I would consider the Durham offer very seriously - it has a very high reputation globally, its graduates are deemed highly employable, and it's a great city to be a student in.

1. I wouldn't take a year out with the expectation that if 4 A*s are attained, and application to Bristol next year will guarantee an offer. UCAS just doesn't worl like that.

1. Bristol are very transparent about considering GCSE results as part of their application criteria - it's a long shot, but it could be worth contacting their admissions team to see if the 4 8's contributed to not getting an offer (so many applicants will have a full set of 9s)

He sounds very bright and capable and so sorry this has happened to him. I would seriously consider a gap year if he's not happy with any of his choices, I think there are some engineering gap year schemes. There's never any guarantees with anything but I can't see why he wouldn't get excellent offers.

I think if he feels up to it may be worth contacting Bristol admissions team to discuss if there's any chance of a MechEng offer. Is he at private school?

Where else did he apply and what other offers has he had ?

Bristol have a very long list of schools eligible for contextual offers which are 2 grades lower and if he's applying from a school not on the list that might be why. It's pretty much private and competitive state sixth forms that are not on and every other school is.

Some good points made on this thread @KB72 . I would actually not recommend a gap year for a maths/engineering subject – unis don’t like it as skills can disappear of not used.

Is Durham his only other offer? It’s a great uni and well worth going to. If any other offers, what are they?

I agree with PPs that sometimes this happens, and you need to support your DC to be resilient. A knockback will happen sooner or later.

I must dispute this tho from @cyclingmum67 : so many applicants will have a full set of 9s

Fewer than 1,200 students got all grade 9s in 2023 (presuming this is the year OP’s DS did GCSEs). They won’t all have applied for mech eng at Bristol! They will have applied to a range of unis for a range of courses; it is not in any way possible that any university could fill all its places on any one course, or in any year, with students who all gained 7+ grade 9s at GCSE. People often say this on MN but the figures make it impossible.

ETA: admittedly as a poster pointed out to me before, the figures don't include private schools (as so many of them offer IGCSEs) so it will be higher than that; but even so - a uni like Bristol will have 3,000+ students in each year. Impossible that they would all have gained all 9s.

Yes he is from a private school

That does seem surprising.
Durham is general engineering four the first two years, specialising in yrs 3&4 I believe. where else did he apply?

Fair point re the full set of 9s @clary- didn't think that one through properly.

The point I was trying to make was that Bristol do take GCSE results into consideration (and are very open about it) - and, although hard to accept, there were possibly many applicants who had more than 5 A*s.

A poster on another thread has got a Bristol offer for Physics following an Engineering application. Perhaps they have been massively oversubscribed this year?

There's a Reddit thread and somewhere there said they applied for CompSci at Bristol and got offered MechEng. https://www.reddit.com/r/6thForm/comments/1ishwq2/bristol_rejection/
Very strange if that's true.

I am so sorry about this, OP. Of course your DS is demoralised; it is the natural reaction.

As a former STEM admissions tutor I know there is some truth to the idea that gap years may be a source of concern in Mech Eng. However if DS hits his mark that will help a lot, and a plant to keep up with his Maths and Physics will often put admissions tutors’ minds at rest.

Before deciding on a gap year I suggest DS email the admissions teams at a few universities of interest and ask whether they would consider a gap year with this caveat (presenting, briefly, a concrete plan)

If he decides to take a gap year and hits his mark, he might also consider making some applications to American and Canadian universities. (Trump’s controversies are only hitting a few places and really not having an impact on UGs). I see you mentioned private school, but I will note anyway that a number of elite universities and four year colleges (a fantastic - and hugely desirable and competitive - option we don’t have in the UK) offer generous needs blind admissions packages. That means students are supported by grants and scholarships, not loans, and minimal term time employment (which is typical in America anyway).

Eg Harvard and MIT are now tuition free for all students with family incomes less than $200,000. Harvard, Dartmouth and several other Ivy League + institutions pay all expenses when the family income is less than $100,000. Of course there are sliding scales between and above these numbers.

One very tantalising programme I just saw is a dual degree programme, majoring in an arts and sciences degree at the superb Amherst College and simultaneously earning an engineering degree at Dartmouth. Both Amherst and Dartmouth offer their needs blind aid packages to International students.

I am sure there are loads of others. If you even want to think seriously about this it would probably be helpful to work with a good consultant; I am afraid I have no idea how to find one. The application process is very different to the UK.

Again, I am sorry this happened. I hope DS will have a good wallow for a couple of days then pick himself up and make Bristol regret this. (Civ Eng can be great, but that is not the issue)

One thought: this is in no way a reflection on DS personally. His gold medals alone refute that. But we know that about 80% of predicted grades are inaccurate, with most over optimistic. Some schools sadly have a reputation for being unreasonable and a higher proportion of private schools than state schools are probably tarred this way. Is there a chance DS’ school is guilty?

In any case I am rather shocked. Our offer is very high (not giving the STEM subject) and we would likely have made him one in about 5 seconds.

I remember hearing that applications were up for engineering this year. I assume that students are choosing that career path as it is still seen as a career with a shortage. They'll have seen top computer science and economics and medicine graduates find it more and more difficult to walk Into good jobs and looking for a more certain path.

well then. Don't know what is happening here. Will request for Info from the uni.

Good post as ever from @poetryandwine
Apols from me @KB72 I am more sympathetic to your DS's situation than I suspect I sounded.

His GCSE grades are excellent as are his A level PGs. It is surprising that he has been turned down by Bristol but I can only think that it's widening participation programme has perhaps worked against him? or there have indeed been so many applications for mech eng this year that it is having a moment, as economics has had of late (many posters will know someone, as I do, who applied for econ with excellent grades and ended up with very few offers).

Does he desperately want to go to Bristol? is Durham the only other offer he holds? Durham is great tho, I know a student studying engineering there who rates it very highly.

Thank you all for the support. If it is oversubscribed then why would they offer a compsci aspiree mechanical engg? If there is any info from Bristol will share here.

It seems to say there's a 50% offer rate so it does seem strange with 4 A stars, great GCSEs, personal statement etc he hasn't been offered a place. I would contact admissions and try and see if they can give any information / hope for getting a place, occasionally places make errors. The Reddit thing no idea how true that is but it does sound genuine and seems very odd if correct. I know on the Student Room you get people putting fake info on there so hard to know.

The only thing I can think of is Bristol gives an offer 2 lower to contextual - my DD was economics and she said to me most places were 1 grade lower not 2. So it could be they contextualise more than the average university. Also I wonder if Bristol gets a higher than average amount applying from private schools and grammars. Can't find data but I know independents have something like 21% apply to Oxbridge and DD is there now and almost all in her subject also applied to Bristol and Bath (especially rowers). She was at state school but one of the few Bristol don't contextualise for and her school got a low percentage of offers for Bristol Economics, around 20% and I think it must be the contextualisation effect as loads with all A star predictions. She got an offer at 3 A stars but her school have some with 4 A stars and no offers in competitive subjects and no obvious reason why sometimes. But a few universities for competitive subjects seemed to be hardly ever making offers. It might be worth asking his school if they have a good careers / higher ed team and always worth looking on university websites to see how they select if they say if he does apply again next year. I am sure it will all work out fine in the end and sorry you are going through this, sounds like he's always done his best.

On the UCAS site it says in previous years 100% of candidates with 3 A stars got an offer so is odd.

https://digital.ucas.com/coursedisplay/courses/292b482f-08d4-87e6-4cea-fae61971fe4d?academicYearId=2025

Also found stats for private school applications and for engineering at Bristol as a whole they were in line with national average at independent schools in 2022 which was latest year given. Economics was a lot higher so must be subject variation. It was 44% of independent school pupils getting an engineering offer but no breakdown by type.

@KB72 How did he demonstrate his commitment to Mech Eng in his personal statement? Did he talk about what inspired him to apply for it? e.g. did he have any work experience, read any books, do a relevant project, listen to podcasts, etc?

Mech Eng at Bristol is very oversubscribed, so they will be looking for applicants who genuinely want to be mechanical engineers, not just use it as a platform for a career in something else, e.g. Finance.

What was it about the Bristol course in particular that attracted him? Is it the city or the department?

I know a young person who applied for Mech Eng there but has accepted an alternative because he really wanted the city, not the course.

@KB72 , you just have to take it as a private school thing, Bristol may think that your ds's school over predicts A levels and his GCSE's are average in context to his school cohort and the Olympiad success's were due to the opportunities he was given.
My ds has 11 GCSE's with all 9's and 8's (but is the middle cohort with these grades at his school) and is predicted 3 x A star and got rejected from Manchester for an economics and finance for no apparent reason other than if you look at the stats he is middling for his extremely high performing school cohort. He is taking Exeter and Newcastle offers instead.

Years ago my ds got an alternative offer from Bristol, Think it was something like Maths engineering instead of Mechanical engineering. I learnt Bristol do this a lot. They also gave him a contextual offer but he didnt take it up.

Bristol admissions disregard personal statements I was shocked to be told by one of their admissions leads at a UCAS fair. They say they are so highly coached and frequently written by parents, teachers and AI, that they simply go on grades, contextual offers available and schools so that they can meet their targets to open up their provision beyond the typical private and top state school pupils who would otherwise get all the offers. Durham is a great university, if his heart is set on Mech Eng I think he should take it.
Other posters are also correct in saying that gap years are not a great idea for STEM students because they need to keep their maths skills live.