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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Appealing Masters Result

103 replies

IndianaJones2021 · 07/05/2025 12:58

Hi my son achieved a merit today in his university degree*. His overall grade was a 69.61 he's gutted he wasn't awarded a distinction.
Has anyone had similar and appealed.
Thanks in advance 😀

*MNHQ removed identifying info at request of OP

OP posts:
Cyantist · 10/05/2025 18:12

What did he get in his dissertation module? I got a merit in my masters and my overall grade was quite an bit above 70, but I had to average 70 in all my taught modules and also in my dissertation module and I only got 69 in my dissertation. Might that explain it? Because it seems very silly not to round up otherwise

Hillarious · 11/05/2025 14:34

The fact remains, he got a very commendable 69.61%. A line between merit and distinction has to be drawn somewhere, and as previously stated, a lot of thought is given to borderline cases. This is not like A levels where thousands of candidates have taken the exam which has then been marked by a third party and it’s possible a mark or two has been missed. Best place to put in effort now is in discussion with any academic who may be writing to support a case for funding. A good reference with an interpretation of marks is essential, highlighting strength in research shown through the modules/ dissertation.

My friend’s partner did a PhD at Cambridge on the back of a 2,ii after working in research for a few years.

Flyswats · 11/05/2025 16:28

The thing is you are only seeing this result out of context. When I did my BA I got a 59 (2.2) and was gutted they didn't give me a Viva to get it up. But then I found out there were tons of others with a 59.5 who did get Vivas. They have to draw the line somewhere.

Devienne · 11/05/2025 19:25

Mannatan · 08/05/2025 13:33

I just think that the whole University system is a con and a scam to be honest.
And that is my opinion after previous experience of working in them.

I've worked in Uni's in the past.

The primary focus above anything else, is on money. The focus is on the university making money.

They talk about students like they are products.

So they make students work for free for three years. That is a scam. Then they also take huge amounts of money off the students. Then they also tell students that they have to get a 70 percent mark, or they will fail at life.

Its a load of bullshit

I'm a university academic who teaches on a Masters course, and I find Mannatan's perspective bizarre, and quite frankly insulting to academics who put a great deal of time and effort into trying to deliver high-quality tertiary education.

University students do not "work for free for three years". For starters, the academic work students do is not for the benefit of the university (what on earth would we do with it?), but for the benefit of the students' own education. Why is it a scam to expect students to put effort into obtaining their educational qualifications? What is the alternative - that students are paid to do their uni coursework? As for "a higher standard of degree is likely to open more doors to further education or employment", this shouldn't really be news to anyone. No-one - or at least, no-one who actually works with university students or graduates - tells students that they will fail at life unless they get a first or a distinction. Is the focus of a university on making money? To a certain extent, because universities need to make enough money to employ staff, run courses and maintain their facilities. But the real focus of universities is in delivering a standard of education that produces excellent graduates, so that they build up a strong reputation and can attract a high calibre of future applicants.

@IndianaJones2021, if it's any help, I can explain a little about the marking processes that will have been conducted in order to reach your DS's final degree award. The marks for each of his individual modules will have been finalised by the module's coordinator/convener. Assessment marks are rarely agreed by a single individual - joint marking, or a process of first marking and then moderation (checking) by a second marker, are the norm. Each module will have an assigned external examiner who is an academic from a similar discipline who is based at a different university (and therefore independent), who scrutinises the module marks to make sure that the marking process has been consistently and fairly applied.

At the end of the year/course, the Exam Board sits and reviews all the module marks for each student. At my university, we meet online and work through a big spreadsheet that has every student's marks for each module. All the marks are anonymised so that we have no idea which individual student's marks we are considering - this is to prevent any bias (positive or negative). My course has a set of criteria for dealing with students whose overall average course mark falls within a certain range below a grade boundary. For example, students who are just below the distinction grade boundary are "moved up" to a distinction if a) their grade is within a certain distance of the grade boundary, b) they have achieved a distinction in a certain proportion of their modules, and c) they have also achieved a distinction in their dissertation. At our Exam Board meetings, there is a member of the Faculty present as the university's representative, and their job is to see that the Exam Board is applying the rules of degree awarding correctly. The external examiners for each module are also present.

It is very common for one or two of our students each year to miss out on a distinction by the narrowest of margins, which is understandably incredibly disappointing. I hope the explanation above shows how much effort university staff put into making sure that the marking processes are fair and consistent, and the rules of degree awarding are applied without prejudice - even when we heartily wish we could bump a grade up in the case of a very near miss!

I can completely understand your DS's disappointment in getting so close to a distinction, but a high merit is still a very impressive achievement. I think the suggestion you've already had from others that he should put his overall grade on his CV when making PhD applications is very good advice.

Mannatan · 12/05/2025 13:33

Devienne · 11/05/2025 19:25

I'm a university academic who teaches on a Masters course, and I find Mannatan's perspective bizarre, and quite frankly insulting to academics who put a great deal of time and effort into trying to deliver high-quality tertiary education.

University students do not "work for free for three years". For starters, the academic work students do is not for the benefit of the university (what on earth would we do with it?), but for the benefit of the students' own education. Why is it a scam to expect students to put effort into obtaining their educational qualifications? What is the alternative - that students are paid to do their uni coursework? As for "a higher standard of degree is likely to open more doors to further education or employment", this shouldn't really be news to anyone. No-one - or at least, no-one who actually works with university students or graduates - tells students that they will fail at life unless they get a first or a distinction. Is the focus of a university on making money? To a certain extent, because universities need to make enough money to employ staff, run courses and maintain their facilities. But the real focus of universities is in delivering a standard of education that produces excellent graduates, so that they build up a strong reputation and can attract a high calibre of future applicants.

@IndianaJones2021, if it's any help, I can explain a little about the marking processes that will have been conducted in order to reach your DS's final degree award. The marks for each of his individual modules will have been finalised by the module's coordinator/convener. Assessment marks are rarely agreed by a single individual - joint marking, or a process of first marking and then moderation (checking) by a second marker, are the norm. Each module will have an assigned external examiner who is an academic from a similar discipline who is based at a different university (and therefore independent), who scrutinises the module marks to make sure that the marking process has been consistently and fairly applied.

At the end of the year/course, the Exam Board sits and reviews all the module marks for each student. At my university, we meet online and work through a big spreadsheet that has every student's marks for each module. All the marks are anonymised so that we have no idea which individual student's marks we are considering - this is to prevent any bias (positive or negative). My course has a set of criteria for dealing with students whose overall average course mark falls within a certain range below a grade boundary. For example, students who are just below the distinction grade boundary are "moved up" to a distinction if a) their grade is within a certain distance of the grade boundary, b) they have achieved a distinction in a certain proportion of their modules, and c) they have also achieved a distinction in their dissertation. At our Exam Board meetings, there is a member of the Faculty present as the university's representative, and their job is to see that the Exam Board is applying the rules of degree awarding correctly. The external examiners for each module are also present.

It is very common for one or two of our students each year to miss out on a distinction by the narrowest of margins, which is understandably incredibly disappointing. I hope the explanation above shows how much effort university staff put into making sure that the marking processes are fair and consistent, and the rules of degree awarding are applied without prejudice - even when we heartily wish we could bump a grade up in the case of a very near miss!

I can completely understand your DS's disappointment in getting so close to a distinction, but a high merit is still a very impressive achievement. I think the suggestion you've already had from others that he should put his overall grade on his CV when making PhD applications is very good advice.

I' hae also worked in Universities, so I don't feel that your opinion is any better than mine.

I know many other people that have worked in Universities, that think Universities are a very abusive system.

They tell people they will totally fail in life, unless they pay huge money for a Degree course.
There are some useful degrees, but Universities also make up loads of absolutely useless degrees, that will not get anyone a job in anything
It gets the student into a large amount of debt etc

titchy · 12/05/2025 13:56

Mannatan · 12/05/2025 13:33

I' hae also worked in Universities, so I don't feel that your opinion is any better than mine.

I know many other people that have worked in Universities, that think Universities are a very abusive system.

They tell people they will totally fail in life, unless they pay huge money for a Degree course.
There are some useful degrees, but Universities also make up loads of absolutely useless degrees, that will not get anyone a job in anything
It gets the student into a large amount of debt etc

You’re spouting bollocks. As everyone can see. Who exactly are universities telling they will fail without a degree - they only have contact with their own students who have already committed to studying.

Any evidence for useless degree that haven’t got anyone a job in anything?

Get that chip off your shoulder

Ceramiq · 12/05/2025 14:10

TBH I think that the averaging system in universities is incredibly dodgy. One of our DC got a very surprisingly low mark in an exam in 2nd year. He was sure that there had been a marking mistake (why would he get a low 2:2 when he was getting Firsts absolutely everywhere and he felt that the exam had gone very well - it was quantitative and he reworked the questions subsequently and couldn't for the life of him work out what might have gone wrong) and he queried it but there was not remarking possible.

He almost missed an overall First because of that grade.

Mannatan · 12/05/2025 14:14

titchy · 12/05/2025 13:56

You’re spouting bollocks. As everyone can see. Who exactly are universities telling they will fail without a degree - they only have contact with their own students who have already committed to studying.

Any evidence for useless degree that haven’t got anyone a job in anything?

Get that chip off your shoulder

"You're spouting bollocks".

What an eloquent, intelligent argument.

Mannatan · 12/05/2025 14:18

titchy · 12/05/2025 13:56

You’re spouting bollocks. As everyone can see. Who exactly are universities telling they will fail without a degree - they only have contact with their own students who have already committed to studying.

Any evidence for useless degree that haven’t got anyone a job in anything?

Get that chip off your shoulder

Here is a BBC report, where people talk about their degrees being useless.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/education-33984756.amp

Here is one quote from the report:

Aaron Cullen, Aberdeen
Given my time again, I wouldn't bother going to university.
The experience was amazing and the life skills have also proved valuable, but the degree is next to worthless.
I have had to go and chase additional qualifications - which I could have done upon leaving school without a degree - in an attempt to gain a job where I feel I will be able to use my full potential.
I also feel misled, as it was essentially drilled in to you that university was the only way to being successful - with hindsight, an apprenticeship or trade would have been a much better option.

titchy · 12/05/2025 14:48

Mannatan · 12/05/2025 14:18

Here is a BBC report, where people talk about their degrees being useless.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/education-33984756.amp

Here is one quote from the report:

Aaron Cullen, Aberdeen
Given my time again, I wouldn't bother going to university.
The experience was amazing and the life skills have also proved valuable, but the degree is next to worthless.
I have had to go and chase additional qualifications - which I could have done upon leaving school without a degree - in an attempt to gain a job where I feel I will be able to use my full potential.
I also feel misled, as it was essentially drilled in to you that university was the only way to being successful - with hindsight, an apprenticeship or trade would have been a much better option.

Edited

One person. Who graduated 10 years ago? Thanks but I prefer to base my opinions on data which is up to date and based on an entire sector not one graduate.

Obviously there will be some people for whom uni was a waste of time, but for the vast majority it really isn’t.

Not that this is helpful to the OP - who I hope has found some more constructive comments.

titchy · 12/05/2025 14:49

Ceramiq · 12/05/2025 14:10

TBH I think that the averaging system in universities is incredibly dodgy. One of our DC got a very surprisingly low mark in an exam in 2nd year. He was sure that there had been a marking mistake (why would he get a low 2:2 when he was getting Firsts absolutely everywhere and he felt that the exam had gone very well - it was quantitative and he reworked the questions subsequently and couldn't for the life of him work out what might have gone wrong) and he queried it but there was not remarking possible.

He almost missed an overall First because of that grade.

It could have been a mistake. Equally he may not have spotted the second page of questions!

murasaki · 12/05/2025 14:58

At ours everything is double marked, and then the external examiner looks at a sample.

It is incredibly unlikely that he was massively undermarked. He may have just misunderstood the question and again on reworking it.

Mannatan · 12/05/2025 15:09

titchy · 12/05/2025 14:48

One person. Who graduated 10 years ago? Thanks but I prefer to base my opinions on data which is up to date and based on an entire sector not one graduate.

Obviously there will be some people for whom uni was a waste of time, but for the vast majority it really isn’t.

Not that this is helpful to the OP - who I hope has found some more constructive comments.

You're very aggressive! You might want to get thise anger issues checked out.

Writing to someone that they are "spouting bollocks" is a strange thing for an adult to say.

Now youre saying to me that im not giving the OP a constructive comment, whilst you yourself are also giving no help whatsoever to the OP

poetryandwine · 12/05/2025 16:09

Ceramiq · 12/05/2025 14:10

TBH I think that the averaging system in universities is incredibly dodgy. One of our DC got a very surprisingly low mark in an exam in 2nd year. He was sure that there had been a marking mistake (why would he get a low 2:2 when he was getting Firsts absolutely everywhere and he felt that the exam had gone very well - it was quantitative and he reworked the questions subsequently and couldn't for the life of him work out what might have gone wrong) and he queried it but there was not remarking possible.

He almost missed an overall First because of that grade.

Yes, @Ceramiq - I have wondered more than once how the British system handles this. We allow students to view their exams by appointment and under supervision, not to take them away.

By then a decent representative sample will have been double marked internally. The original marker will have drawn a red line through the margins of all pages of seen writing. Every page will have been inspected by professional support staff for missed writing and PSS will have double checked the adding of the marks.

A smaller representative sample, particularly papers near the grade boundaries, will have been scrutinised by an external examiner who may raise questions.

Nevertheless, buried in all of this, at least half the papers will have had academic judgment applied only once. One assumes mistakes are occasionally made, particularly as workloads are extremely high and postdocs and PGs do some of the marking.

Only once have I gone to a colleague on behalf of a tutee, because that student had endured an exceptional hardship and was desperate to put the question to rest. The colleague was perfectly pleasant. The exam had been graded by a team and perhaps my colleague himself would have been more generous here but less generous there, and I agreed with him overall. It meant a lot to my tutee that we thought about it.

Without a personal tutor willing to visit an exam with the student ( and able to judge the subject), as far as I can see a student has no recourse in the British system. If a main line of argument is incorrectly marked wrong hopefully the internal or external seconds will find it. A brilliant line of reasoning used only by a few may not fare so well. I suppose the thinking is that this should not happen often enough to affect degree classification but it still seems wrong.

I worked in American universities before coming to the UK. Too much is left to the individual examiner there. However each academic generally keeps custody of their own exams. I would get students to clear up any marking questions as exams are returned, on the understanding that after the papers leave my sight the marks cannot be adjusted. I think students find the existence of recourse reassuring even if it is seldom needed

thing47 · 12/05/2025 16:11

The link you posted is interesting but for context its worth pointing out that the student in question studied politics and philosophy - what profession did he think those subjects would lead directly into? And what tr ade would he have studied in its place?

thing47 · 12/05/2025 16:15

I'm all for people studying something they are really interested in, but these days it is naive to do that and to have no idea whatsoever what you are going to do next - you need to be looking for internships, summer jobs, work experience etc. If nothing else, this can help.you rule out things you find you don't want to do.

Ceramiq · 12/05/2025 18:08

@poetryandwine "I suppose the thinking is that this should not happen often enough to affect degree classification but it still seems wrong."

Very much agree with this.

In the case of our DC, he did raise the issue with his personal tutor when requesting a reference for his Masters' applications and ask that he address this unexpected grade in the written reference. Who knows what the personal tutor wrote, but DC got a place on his chosen Masters and I doubt that it will matter ever again now. One other of our DC has had a couple of issues with Chinese TAs who didn't seem to understand essays very well and liked giving the whole tutor group marks within an extremely tight range.

Ceramiq · 12/05/2025 18:17

titchy · 12/05/2025 14:49

It could have been a mistake. Equally he may not have spotted the second page of questions!

That definitely didn't happen.

Hillarious · 14/05/2025 18:40

Ceramiq · 12/05/2025 14:10

TBH I think that the averaging system in universities is incredibly dodgy. One of our DC got a very surprisingly low mark in an exam in 2nd year. He was sure that there had been a marking mistake (why would he get a low 2:2 when he was getting Firsts absolutely everywhere and he felt that the exam had gone very well - it was quantitative and he reworked the questions subsequently and couldn't for the life of him work out what might have gone wrong) and he queried it but there was not remarking possible.

He almost missed an overall First because of that grade.

I was once helping a student who was querying his final grade, with a view to seeing if an appeal might be possible. I obtained a copy of the exam paper and we quickly established he’d not read the rubric. Consequently, one of his essays wasn’t marked and he missed out on his predicted First. He was gutted, but accepted totally it was his error. The main thing is that final marks are very well considered in university exams, especially when it comes to drawing the line between classifications. Unlike A levels, the person who set the paper or questions has input to the marking. A lot of students are disappointed and think it grossly unfair when their request for a remark simply to find extra marks is turned down, all proper considerations have already been made.

poetryandwine · 14/05/2025 18:58

Hillarious · 14/05/2025 18:40

I was once helping a student who was querying his final grade, with a view to seeing if an appeal might be possible. I obtained a copy of the exam paper and we quickly established he’d not read the rubric. Consequently, one of his essays wasn’t marked and he missed out on his predicted First. He was gutted, but accepted totally it was his error. The main thing is that final marks are very well considered in university exams, especially when it comes to drawing the line between classifications. Unlike A levels, the person who set the paper or questions has input to the marking. A lot of students are disappointed and think it grossly unfair when their request for a remark simply to find extra marks is turned down, all proper considerations have already been made.

I agree with @titchy that this is what happens more often than not.

However once a postdoc on my marking team marked a correct line of reasoning used by 10-12 students in a very large lecture wrong. One of my own tutees taking the module had come to me to discuss the argument, which she had used, afterwards. I mentioned it to the postdoc who was from a culture that devalues women and argued with me about it. As exam papers are anonymised I had to read that question over and remark the papers using the novel, correct argument.
Absent my tutee it is iffy whether this would have been caught in our system.

Ceramiq · 15/05/2025 08:20

poetryandwine · 14/05/2025 18:58

I agree with @titchy that this is what happens more often than not.

However once a postdoc on my marking team marked a correct line of reasoning used by 10-12 students in a very large lecture wrong. One of my own tutees taking the module had come to me to discuss the argument, which she had used, afterwards. I mentioned it to the postdoc who was from a culture that devalues women and argued with me about it. As exam papers are anonymised I had to read that question over and remark the papers using the novel, correct argument.
Absent my tutee it is iffy whether this would have been caught in our system.

@poetryandwine Your insights are very helpful and corroborate my family's perceptions. I have on more than one occasion told a DC that their essay was very good and the person marking it clearly less clever and knowledgeable than they and they just have to move on but not doubt their own mind. That is only really possible when parents (or another useful close relative) have extensive, deep subject knowledge - which of course does happen!

Mannatan · 15/05/2025 11:41

thing47 · 12/05/2025 16:11

The link you posted is interesting but for context its worth pointing out that the student in question studied politics and philosophy - what profession did he think those subjects would lead directly into? And what tr ade would he have studied in its place?

Yes, but also why is the University offering a degree course in politics and philosophy?

People are usually young teenagers when they apply to Uni, so they mightnt realise that degrees like this don't lead to jobs

thing47 · 16/05/2025 14:53

I don't necessarily have any objection to people studying what they are most interested in (though I do personally believe that too many universities are trying to offer too wide a range of subjects), but that does need to come with a dose of realism.

I agree that more guidance could, and probably should, be given to young people contemplating university. But the student has to take some responsibility here too. What line of work did he think he was going to walk straight into with a degree in politics and philosophy?

MarchingFrogs · 17/05/2025 08:59

thing47 · 16/05/2025 14:53

I don't necessarily have any objection to people studying what they are most interested in (though I do personally believe that too many universities are trying to offer too wide a range of subjects), but that does need to come with a dose of realism.

I agree that more guidance could, and probably should, be given to young people contemplating university. But the student has to take some responsibility here too. What line of work did he think he was going to walk straight into with a degree in politics and philosophy?

So do ypu believe that neither subject should be studied (at all? Just no further than A level?), or just not in combination?

Look up, for a start, the difference between 'wrong' and 'harm' basic principles of philosophy with a very real life application to politics and governance.

Do you believe that the only form of post school study allowed should be diect training rather than higher education?

I can't see where the OP has said that her DS assumed that his Master's would lead him straight into the the job of 'Someone with a Master's degree in Politics and Philosophy' (although just possibly there is some on the job teacher training scheme which woukd be more or less this?), but perhaps something has been lost in the editing?

Ceramiq · 17/05/2025 09:10

Politics and Philosophy doesn't lead to jobs? That's news. There are all sorts of media, communications, public policy etc jobs for graduates of Politics and Philosophy.

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