Law choices

[Laundryandtoil]

Could someone who knows anything about law please advise whether my Y12 daughter is choosing realistic unis? Her choices are:

1. Cambridge - Downing, Magdalene or Selwin (not sure which)
2. Durham
3. Bristol
4. Exeter
5. Nottingham

She says she needs to sit an exam for the first three. She is likely to be predicted all A stars but reckons she will end up with A star, A star or A and A as actual results.

I would be very grateful as I don’t feel able to advise although she will run her choices past school (state grammar). Thank you MN

Bolding is very determined that it doesn't want to be edited out....

@Auchencar For barristers in London, I don’t see anything wrong with the original choice. All will have high achieving students wanting the bar.

Agree Tizer.

I was responding to the poster who said that she completely disagreed with being bold and applying for five excellent unis.

The current choices make very good sense since OP's DD seems to be wanting to give London a swerve.

@Auchencar DD is on the pupillage panel at Chambers and they aren’t that keen on people who haven’t gone to the best they can with their A level results. Making the easy choice isn’t the best choice. Also BBB at A level won’t really hack it anywhere: not that this DD will get that. So aim high.

My DD is a barrister and not many need European law but no doubt some do. However the main thing to consider is that perhaps there’s a need to make a choice over the barrister or solicitor route or non law route earlier. However if DD studies law, then all bases are covered.

it’s irrelevant whether she uses it. The fact remains that you have to have taken it in order to become a barrister

All the degrees Op has listed are qualifying law degrees. The modules needed are usually compulsory but her dd can easily ensure she sits correct modules. Yes EU law is compulsory.
https://www.barstandardsboard.org.uk/training-qualification/becoming-a-barrister/academic-component.html
Personally I wouldn’t worry about listing a choice lower than AAA. Exeter may take at AAB, they definitely took with dropped grade last year.
I personally found it hard to wrap my head around AAA being my dc’s lowest offer. But I had my ‘old money’ head on when AAA was highest. An A star x 3 predicted dc is unlikely to drop more than 3 grades. I wouldn’t waste a choice on Leicester, Lancaster etc when they are always in clearing.
If it really goes pear shaped then there’s clearing - some RG were in clearing for law. Or gap yr and rethink choice of subject.
I think OP’s list is a very good balance of lnat and none lnat and a spread of grades.

Nottingham is definitely none lnat now (it used to be a few years ago)

Ah ok! I can see they dropped it for 2024 entry. In which case the list is fine 😃

You will definitely need to pass the LNAT for Nottingham as well as most/all of the others I would think.

Editted to say I’m out of touch. My daughter graduated from Nottingham last year so requirements have changed since she entered.

Only a few are LNAT, definitely not Nottingham anymore.
lnat.ac.uk/what-is-lnat/do-i-need-to-sit-the-test/

@Dannexe I assume it’s on either conversion or barrister TC then. Or they would be ruling out everyone who is a non law degree, which obviously they don’t.

Yes. It’s in GDL. No worries about that then.

The GDL won’t be available to the OPs DD. It’s being phased out and is only available to those who started their degree prior to 2021. You now do one of a variety of “conversion courses” (there are various different options including the confusingly named PGDL - which is different from
the old GDL, some LLM options and various other courses with different names and all with slightly different content and studied over different lengths of time). There’s also no “qualifying law degree” anymore since it doesn’t enable you to skip the CPE/GDL/new conversion course stage anymore (as technically you don’t have to do any form of undergraduate legal study before taking the SQE). This will mean that students can obtain a law degree and not have covered the key areas that were previously required for a degree to be qualifying.

it’s all very confusing and generally considered a bit of a shit show currently. I’m sure it will settle down but we need some consistency in the legal education market and currently it isn’t there. There are too many options and variables.

Sorry - PGDL now for barristers. Then the BTC. Their route seems clear to me. SQE seems a mess as it’s become like the barristers course, expensive and no guarantee of work.

SQE was designed to remove bottleneck of difficulty in securing a training contract.
So in past students did law degree (or post graduate conversion) 1 yr postgraduate course focusing on practical skills and then needed a 2 year training contract which were like gold dust.
Now in theory it’s just pass SQE1 & 2 and 2 years qualifying work experience which can be acquired in different ways eg as volunteer or paralegal.
In reality most firms/organisations are still insisting on a legal qualification (degree or conversion) not just SQE 1 pass for legal knowledge.
Some firms follow traditional model of trainee doing SQE 1 & 2 then join firm for 2 years on job training like old style training contract.
Some using model of doing postgraduate SQE exams at same time as working. This attracts apprenticeship funding in England but govt have indicated this will be withdrawn.
Some firms inc Magic circle offer full apprenticeship route from 18 but very few places
https://www.lawsociety.org.uk/topics/hr-and-people-management/level-7-solicitor-apprenticeships-funding
It is a mess at minute. I’ve got 3 in my team who will all qualify via different routes. I suspect as more stats come out and there’s feedback from candidates and firms one route will become the norm.

@Cakeandusername Now you have many more doing the training but the jobs market will remain the same. Recipe for much disappointment as young people are further down the track before they get nothing. Barristers also often train first and get pupillage second. It ends up being an expensive mistake for many as they don’t get pupillage at all. Basically it’s an issue of too many law degrees and too many qualifying for the jobs actually available.

Yes I suspect bottle neck will move from can’t get a training contract to struggle to get NQ role.
But they will still be qualified solicitors unlike in old days where an LPC and no training contract was worthless or like passing Bar course is worthless without pupillage as you aren’t a barrister.
The SQE is not an easy route. Pass rates aren’t high, hovering around 50%. You can only have 3 attempts. The stats are interesting there’s a massive difference in pass rate between the young fresh out of uni demographic (the ones who would have got training contracts in the old LPC days) and older people.

Personally I was really glad I did a law degree. I ended up having an eclectic career and having a grounding in several areas of law has been genuinely useful to me throughout my career. A years rush through surely isn’t the same. Admit I find it odd when people discount a law degree as “boring” but want to become lawyers.

@TheaBrandt1 yes I was in one area for 20 years now am senior lawyer in another totally different area. Absolutely loved my Law degree and would have loved to have signed up for lots of modules when I was touring all the law unis with dc.
I’d be interested to see stats of SQE1 pass rates for law degree v conversion. I’m not aware of any - if anyone knows can they link. On one hand I wonder if postgraduate conversion people will find easier as will be fresh in mind eg being tested on contract law only a year after studying it, whereas law students do it yr1 of law degree so 3 or 4 years before SQE. Or whether the SQE1 is so rigorous that the 3 years wider and more in depth study will give them an edge.

@TheaBrandt1 I think having people with a variety of skills is good though. At interview DD knew she would be asked - why not a law degree? The answer is that she was also good at MFLs and wanted to explore her ability at those and associated cultures resulting in a broad education and experience to bring to the role of being a barrister. Her MFLs were important to who she is. I’m sure scientists feel the same. Clearly, until now, employers have agreed too as a high proportion of lawyers don’t have a law degree. As, in the past, the GDL was deemed as suitable, the law firms surely would not want to miss out on very bright candidates who just happened to do something else for 3/4 years? Plenty of Oxbridge grads would be lost.

@Cakeandusername I’m assuming it’s the older candidates who are passing the exams more readily? I wonder if the best candidates are hoovered up by the large companies who are using their standard recruitment methods but others are taking the exams with no employer in sight? Therefore not got the backing of employment and experience? Could this be what’s happening. I guess some newly qualified solicitor can work for business too and of course not all law degree holders will want to stay in law anyway.

Other way around younger more likely to pass. Other stats like more likely to pass with a first not surprising.
This is from latest sitting if SQE1 (legal knowledge exam)
https://sqe.sra.org.uk/docs/default-source/pdfs/reports/sqe1-january-2025-statistical-report.pdf?sfvrsn=e3851a33_1

@Cakeandusername That’s really interesting! So experience is no advantage. Some Paralegals wait ages to get into a training role. Maybe being on an academic roll is advantageous then? Or feeling crap if you don’t pass!? Outstanding grade for the BTC is also closely linked to a first.

Alongside not quite understanding why posters almost always suggest not reading Law to a DC who wants to read Law, I don't see why when a DC says their ambition is to become a barrister at the London Bar it's always the case that posters pop up to discuss training contracts and routes to becoming a solicitor.

TizerorFizz it shouldn't come as a surprise that those with firsts do well in subsequent vocational exams.

Because a significant number of those who say they want to be a barrister when they are in sixth form actually decide to become a solicitor.