Still waiting to hear from St Andrews - is that a bad sign?

[lucasnorth]

DD has applied for English at St Andrews which will be her first choice if she gets an offer. She has heard back from everywhere else she applied. Also, there is an offer holders open day on 5 April so was really expecting to hear back in good time before that.
Does anyone involved in uni admissions know what it means that she has still not heard? Is it likely a ‘no’? Or doesn’t it mean anything to have not heard yet?
Thanks in advance for any wise words…

My DH got a place in clearing...that was 30 years ago. Good luck to you DD.

STILL no news here - anyone else?

I hear St Andrews is usually April. My son is still waiting and so are all his friends, all different subjects.

Still waiting here too 🙁

St Andrews don’t do clearing any more - it’s on their website

good luck op and don’t worry if you can’t make the open day - you can have a good explore just wandering around the town

My DC is still waiting too. We are Scottish if that makes a difference.

My daughter got a good offer last year from St A (humanities) after the offer holders day and well into mid April. So late! Felt like she was waiting forever. She then promptly firmed and insured 2 other unis so not sure why she bothered waiting, ho hum. But do not read anything in to it.

All the highly selective universities (Imperial, LSE, UCL, KCL, St Andrews) seem to be taking even longer than usual to get back to students this year. My hunch is that they are using admissions software that is waiting for information from UCAS for yield management and that this information isn't forthcoming. But that's just my guess.

@Ceramiq could you explain what yield management is for those of us who haven’t a clue what this means?! Sorry about that.

In admissions terms, ensuring that the right number of offers are made for the number of places available in the light of all other offers that applicants are receiving.

Yield management techniques first came to public awareness in the UK with EasyJet and other low cost airlines that varied their prices as and when seats were sold to ensure that planes were full. In the United States universities have used yield management software in admissions for quite a while. When universities start having portals for applicants I suspect that those are just the customer-facing elements of a much larger tech system to optimise admissions. But I'm guessing...

I'm also suspicious of UCAS' new Personal Statement format, with three specific questions to answer for applicants. This will surely make Personal Statements much more easily assessed by AI, which also suggests that technology is going to be leveraged increasingly in admissions. And more and more highly selective courses are using admissions testing, which is also tech friendly.

Oh that’s interesting. I know US universities use all sorts of data to gauge the true level of interest and how likely applicants are to accept an offer if made, such as the extent to which they click on links in emails sent to applicants, attend virtual information events, interact otherwise such as asking questions of the admissions teams, make a campus visit, join a tour etc. This will inform offer decisions. But what data will UCAS have at this stage to give them?

Re AI - I can see that we are going to have statements written by increasingly sophisticated AI tools anslysed by increasingly sophisticated Ai tools such that the whole thing is pointless. Better to simply score candidates against public and other exams and selection tests (eg like Ireland); or let in a whole load of candidates who have essentially self-selected and have adequate predictions let half of those who have overestimated their abilities fail and crash out of first year (like Canada)(although this mid will push mid-lower tier unis into bankruptcy in the UK) or interview face to face (like oxbridge, Manchester, imperial).

Bocconi University in Milan has ditched the PS, CV and references and ranks applicants on a numerical basis by combining GPA (they have a formula for all the different international qualifications) and the SAT or Bocconi Test. Students are then admitted to the courses they have selected in strict numerical order.

EPFL in Lausanne lets in applicants with a high school diploma score above a set amount and then quickly fails out or lets repeat a year a large proportion of students.

High school leaving exams are not always very reliably marked and not all systems have provisions for remarking even when students believe something has gone very wrong.

I think that the world is moving inexorably towards ever more secure standardised testing in Pearson VUE (or similar) centres for high-ranking universities and that the rest of HE will increasingly recruit locally. There is going to be a big divide between those who can afford to move to attend high ranking ever more selective institutions and the rest.

I think some UK universities already track engagement (attendance at online open days, in person open days etc) though tbh I'm not convinced it's very meaningful. The best data that UK universities can hope to get is from UCAS as some applicants Firm and Insure places, while also Declining others. Hence the very long wait! But I'm not sure these features of admissions tech solutions are terribly meaningful yet. This may evolve of course. The new PS format and the increasing number of secure admissions tests are probably just the beginning of changes to what has become an unwieldy system. There is periodic talk of post-exam results applications but this is pie in the sky.

Yes university of Toronto is very much of the swiss model - which means first year economics lectures can have literally 1000s people present whereas by 2nd and 3rd year it has been thinned out considerably! The Irish system also ranks every student in the country by results and then goes down the list offering first choice places to the top tier, moving to second choice and so on until everybody has a place somewhere.
I don't understand why every other country seems to be able to make decisions much earlier in the year. Waiting until after public exam results at the end of August for a september start before you really know who is coming, seems a bit nuts. It will be interesting to see how it changes as I think it must.

The UK school system makes examination results the decisive factor in admissions, which is not the case for many countries which rely on GPA. TBH I think UK university education is extremely effective versus that of many other countries, and one (not the only) reason is how efficient the sorting of students is at applications stage. I am not a fan at all of reducing this mechanism.

Everyone the world over complains about university admissions! It's always going to be complicated.

I'm sorry for all those still waiting.

Just a quick question, as on Mumsnet there are so many statements - across all Higher Education posts - saying their YP had 'all 9s and A* predictions.

But how many kids actually achieve all 9s every year? And how many places are available at e.g. highly competitive unis e.g. Oxbridge, Durham, St Andrews, Warwick etc.

I know it's difficult as not all those with all 9s will apply to the same courses, but surely those that do get all 9s and continue that trajectory should have a good chance at getting offers from these unis?

@lucasnorthany news your end? Still nothing here for dd - a friend of hers got rejected earlier this week for a similar course (predications of 2 A stars and one A) but she’s heard nothing. Offer holder day is tomorrow so not very helpful 🙄

anyone else?

In DS2's GCSE year which is the last one unaffected by Covid so my go-to (2019) 837 students got all grade 9s. That wouldn't even come close to filling one year at Oxford. i think there are a lot of people not saying grades haha. My DS did amazingly and his grades ranged from 6-9; he got offers from three RG and his eventual choice, an RG+. Not St Andrews tho.

Hi - no, still nothing here 😕

My DS was rejected earlier this week. I would say it's a good sign if you haven't heard yet. Good luck everyone!

Interesting - so there should be enough places not only for those with grades 9s, but a mixture of grades at those higher levels e.g. 7/8/9s...

yes for sure.

IRL I know one student who got all grade 9s. She is at Bath btw so not Oxford or Cambs or St A or Imperial. Most YP I know got a range of grades. Mate of DS's got a 6 in eng lang and went to Cambs to study maths. The % of students getting all 9s (even in more recent years) is tiny – and nowhere near enough to fill a year at any uni really. Lots of uni places for students with lower GCSE grades. It's what you do at A level that counts the most for all but a handful of unis/courses (so econ at LSE, medicine anywhere) anyway

DS got rejected for a science course yesterday. He has 9A star GCSE’s FWIW.

Sorry to hear about your DS. Hope he is excited about an offer he’s had from somewhere else

eta sorry that was in response to @Youngerthanthatnow