Help. Son has Cambridge offer but wants to start again

[Bobcat2]

My son decided quite early in Y12 that he’d gone down the wrong path with his A levels. He’s taking geography, maths, history and politics. He’s predicted A stars in all. He had 6 9s and 3 8s at GCSE from a comprehensive with pretty poor GCSE results.

He has just received an offer to read geography at Cambridge and we thought this might settle him down, but he’s still wishing he’d done physics and either chemistry and biology, and is thinking of trying to do these in a year and apply in September for natural sciences.

We’re not sure if any of this is feasible (2 a levels in a year, which is less than a year!) and also applying for natural sciences with very little time actually having been spent studying the two new A levels he would need. He’s pretty determined and focused but it all seems a tall order and a bit mad to us. Would really value any insights.

Despite doing history and politics, it’s the human geography side that he thinks he won’t enjoy and would rather be doing the earth sciences etc side of geography with maths and physics alongside. If starting again will essentially mean two years until he can go to university, I think he’ll realise he needs to take up the offer (grades notwithstanding). Thanks

My nephew did similar. Applied to Oxford and got a place and then decided he wanted to do another subject. He ended up going through clearing and getting a place at UCL.

Is he aware that in second and third year of uni he gets to pick his modules, so he could focus on physical geography rather than human?

This. Due to the tripos system he can ever change degree entirely. I had a friend who did one year of English literature and two years of archaeology and anthropology.

My understanding is that Cambridge are looking for commitment/suitability for a subject so may unlikely he'd get a place there. University is a huge personal and financial commitment so if he's not sure he should take his time.

Also natsci he will have the entrance exam in the sciences/maths in October…not a chance he can cover enough material to get the marks needed for an interview.

Just a note to say I know a Cambridge undergraduate who is complaining about there being TOO MUCH maths and chemistry as part of their Geography degree.

After first year you can ditch human geography completely

This. Due to the tripos system he can ever change degree entirely. I had a friend who did one year of English literature and two years of archaeology and anthropology.

Only within limits - I don't think to NatSci without sufficient science A levels.

However focussing on the physical side of geography should be possible I think - I know someone who did geog at Cambridge a few years ago, her work now is very much not on the human side, seems more like geology to me tbh

I did earth sciences thinking it would be like physical geography with dinosaurs thrown in. I really didn't know much about it tbh.

I did maths, physics and chemistry at A level. Tbh I think maths, further maths and geology would have prepared me better. Earthquakes and volcanoes were super maths heavy. I didn't use my chemistry that much. We also didn't cover exciting dinosaurs at all - most of the palaeontology was ammonites and microfossils.

I'd encourage him to do a lot of research to be sure he truly understands what geology is before deciding. And check whether he'd be better off doing geography and ditching the human modules in yr2, or if Cambridge allow transfers from geography geology in Yr 2.

Would they let him defer for a year. He could try to do Physics A level in that year (while retaining his offer) with a view to specialising in Geo Physics? I don’t think Geology has the “human” element in the course.

Physical NatSci is very hard to get into and is mostly maths - he would really need further maths as well as maths to cope. Lots of students transfer out of physical natsci because of the difficulty of the maths involved. Because admissions are very subject-specific, he would have quite a high chance of failing to get an offer the second time round. Also agree that he would likely need an additional two years to cover (ideally) physics, chemistry and further maths to the right standard for entry. Plus I’n assuming that with those A-levels he did the statistics version of the maths A-level? Whereas for physics he would need to go back and learn the mechanics half of the maths A-level as well. I mean, for physics he really has to LOVE maths, as it is a huge foundation for the subject and the maths component of the physical NatSci course is pitched beyond A-level (this is why a lot of the students end up transferring into BioNatsci).

He might need to decide if he is set on physics as a particular subject, or the Oxbridge experience. If he is so set on changing subject that he would be willing to either take two years to redo his A-level subjects, and/or go to another university, then you know that it’s truly the subject he wants to follow. If he is really after the Oxbridge experience, he might prefer to stick with the bird in the hand, and then tailor choosing his options accordingly. (NB it would be vanishingly unlikely for him to be able to switch to a second Tripos part in NatSci because of the heavy maths element required for Physics - it’s cumulative and the later stages of the physical NatSci course build on the earlier years.)

By the way, does he really know what he’s getting into with physics? I did A-levels in physics, maths and further maths, and physics at the start sounds like you’re going to be doing all sorts of exciting existential stuff to do with relativity and quantum mechanics — but in reality, no-one really does much of the really exciting stuff until beyond their PhD. To be brutally honest, A-level physics is quite dull for most of the course and much more so than you think before you begin - more like calculating endless force diagrams or heat diffusion through flooring materials than getting into the wonders of the universe. (Ditto, I’m sad to say, chemistry — more about calculating molar saturations than doing brilliant experiments.) Neither of them are as remotely interesting a discipline as history, politics or geography - and I say this as someone who went in the opposite direction, from STEM to the social sciences! And, again, he really would need further maths to be really competitive for either NatSci at Cambridge or physics at Oxford.

In addition to all the points made above... for NatSci, he would have to sit the ESAT in maths, physics, and chemistry in October. This would be pretty much impossible without about 2/3 of the A-level specifications under his belt.

ETA; didn't see that @DorotheaDiamond had already made that point! But it is a deal-breaker.

How will he learn/be taught these a levels? He can’t stay at school. Would you get him a tutor and sit as a private candidate? Esat could also be the blocker as a pp said.

What do you mean do 2 A levels in a year? How? As a private candidate? So is he going to teach himself? An A level syllabus is surely 2 years so any taught A level will be a 2 year course?

I don’t think Cambridge would touch him again with a barge pole to be honest. Though I could be entirely wrong but why would they take a risk on someone who hasn’t shown as much commitment to the subject when they will be inundated with equally good candidates who haven’t changed their minds last minute like this.

and if he starts his new A levels in Sept/oct and applies to Cambridge in Sept/oct and has an interview in Dec time he will have to do his interview and any other tests after studying these A levels for a couple of months. And be up against people who have been studying them over a year. Would his subject knowledge be good enough to compete? Dont Cambridge also have a rule that they only count A levels/ucas points from one year? That last point may be outdated but do check.

From what others have said to me doing geography and picking his modules carefully in year 2 and 3 would be the better option. Is he getting cold feet at the thought of leaving home/going to Cambridge???

What everyone else said.

Is there a reason why he wants to change? Obviously if he wants to do scientific research long term he will need to change but if it’s just that he doesn’t like human geography, then he can go maths and chemistry heavy in year2/3.

FWIW Cambridge Geography is an incredibly versatile degree as you can mix STEM and humanities. Some potential to swap subjects in the second year(though this was a while ago)

also NatSci vs geography were very very different work patterns in terms of lectures/own guided reading/supervisions.

As PP said he could switch around between Part I and II tripos at Cambridge. I did HSPS and we always had a bunch of folks in part II switching in. But as PP have also said to go into Natsci you'd definitely need further maths and the relevant sciences at A level. So he'd need to take more like 3 A levels in a year rather than 2. And a brand new application.
In my opinion he'd be better off going to Cambridge and looking at going into the physical geography side rather than starting again. There's a lot of unknowns.

Yes, it’s a crazy idea. I would echo what others have said about focusing on the physical geog/scientific aspects of the Cambridge degree.
How important is going to Cambridge? With his new plan, his chances of getting a Natural Sciences place are slim. Will he be devastated if he doesn’t get a place?

I can’t thank you all enough for your replies - I really appreciate the time taken to write some really helpful and comprehensive answers. I will share all of this with my son. It is as I had thought - he’d basically have to delay university for two years.

TBH we can’t get to the root of the issue as he has always loved geography (both human and physical) and am sure he’ll love the course. When we went to the Bristol geography open day I was struck by the lecturer saying a lot of students arrive thinking they’ll be a human geographer and end up focussing on physical and vice versa. I think my son is finding it hard to imagine how different uni study will be from A levels.

Every one of his friendship group is doing eg maths, FM, physics, computing. I think when he gets to Cambridge and meets his geography peers he will have less academic FOMO.

All that said, it is very hard for children who have equal aptitude and interest across the sciences and humanities to have to choose a path aged 15. I encouraged him to move to a local grammar to do the IB for this very reason but he wanted to stay out.

Anyway, many thanks again.

Does his college do offer days? If so he should go and talk to students doing his course. My DS was dithering between 2 options and it was so helpful to talk to a student who has been in the same position and was able to give some good advice.

Do you think he could be worried about actually going to uni and this is a way to put it off for awhile?

My nephew took all sciences at A level. Realised at the end of year 12 he should have followed his passion and took music. Did music A level in a year and got 3 offers for music.
So a change of direction can be done. Whether it is wise is a different question. I'd echo pp and say he needs to discuss with uni.

That’s a very good call on the offer day - I think the college days at half term are for all courses but I am sure he would be able to chat to someone on his course. He wasn’t going to go as we are a long way from Cambridge but he should. Re. Being anxious about going way, I don’t think this is troubling him (but him staying two more years at home might trouble me!!)

OP, this is all very reminiscent of my son - currently predicted all 9s at a dodgy school. I agree that it's so hard to narrow down to 3/4 subjects when you have equal aptitude (at GCSE!) across the board. He wants to do Maths, Geography, Spanish, Chemistry at the moment but perhaps only take 3 in the end. Not sure what road he wants to go down at all. I think he be great in consultancy as he needs new projects to immerse himself in all the time. He is naturally talented at maths and languages but interested in geog. This is helpful to know to keep his options open.

My DD went through a wobble like this (although not for Cambridge!). About a week after she'd put her UCAS application in for maths, she had a complete meltdown because she decided she'd chosen the wrong thing, and wanted to do something medical related. We spent ages looking into it, and it was actually impossible to do the extra A-level she would have needed, and she gradually went off the idea realising it was too much hassle. She's now in her 2nd year of maths, and she has a wobble about her course choice every time a point in her life arises where there seems to be no turning back. And it's always a different thing that she wants to change to. She's looked into engineering, sustainability, renewable energy, computer science, but always just stuck with maths in the end.

For my DD, she's a perfectionist, and I think it's a psychological thing of wanting to make a "perfect" decision, and she panics every time a door shuts to changing her mind. So, her wobbles were: 1. after she put her UCAS application in. 2. After the first few weeks at uni (she could have changed in the first week or two, but not after that) 3. Towards the end of her 1st year (they allow a year's grace with the funding, so she could have started again on a different course). And because she is unsure about what she wants to do, she seems to be swayed by whoever she's last spoken to, which is very confusing for her.

I think she's finally realised that if she can get the maths degree under her belt, she can pretty much do what she wants anyway.

Do contact the college and the geography dept. I’m sure you will find some one to discuss with. There’s a reasonably strong alumni network.

But in that case he just needed the music A level - and I'd guess he had instrumental grades already and demonstrable skills?. STEM A levels are acceptable for arts/humanities applications in combination with the specific required subject(s).
But others have said, NatSci has more specific entry requirements which are unrealistic for the OPs DS to achieve in a year. The requirements aren't box ticking for Cambridge stem degrees, they're the base of science and maths knowledge the students need to be able to cope with the courses.

I don’t believe music degrees are as heavily oversubscribed as Cambridge NatSci either, most applicants will have a great set of predicted grades for 3 or more often 4 subjects taken in the normal timescale, and relevant extracurriculars showing their engagement ….and the vast majority won’t get an offer.