Parents of US student looking for general UK uni advice

[Valleysaurus]

Hello

Our eldest daughter is a junior in high school in the States and is seriously considering pursuing her bachelors course at a UK university. Her high school marks and test scores will not be high enough for her to be competitive at the more selective universities. If we understand the UK entry requirements, we suspect our daughter would qualify for courses with entry requirements at the ABB or BBB level. We don't think she is particularly concerned about institutional pedigree, just fit. Likewise, international fees are not a primary consideration in our choice because, believe it or not, even at the international rate, many UK universities are more affordable than their US counterparts.

Like many high school students in the United States, she does not have a clear idea of what course she would like to study in university, but we suspect she will settle on a course focused on environmental studies, sustainability, conservation or tourism and hospitality. Which leads to the questions:

Given her applicant profile, which UK universities (if any) have a closer-knit campus community? Think a lot of students living in university accommodations and/or located in a city that is what we might call a "college town" in the States.

Are sandwich programs at all useful for international students in helping to find work post graduation?

Is it weird that admissions representatives are not returning our emails? We've contacted a few universities with questions about entry for 26/27 school year and it's been crickets...

Thanks!

agree that Preston (UCLAN) is not picturesque
I would say don't undersestimate the differences between US and UK university life
my DD did a year at a US university and we were all shocked that she had to share a room with a stranger (there was no other option) and had no self catering option.

Although I did a semester at Oklahoma Uni ( go Sooners ! you see we never forget 🤣) on an exchange programme and had a lovely 2bed flat to share with one other. Huge double bedrooms, bills included. Lovely.
Best accommodation in the 5 years I was at UK universities

Umlike American universities, the affordable sticker price you're looking at is only for tuition. Living costs, which can vary quite a lot, are on top of tuition. Campus life isn't the same as campus life in the US because students often live off campus in private rentals. Also, for those living in university halls, she might find herself self catering.

Have you considered the community college route to university in the US? It's not glamorous, and she'd miss the usual campus fun and social life, but it is an affordable way to get gen ed requirements under her belt while she's deciding the direction she'd like to go in. Many community colleges have well trodden pipelines to state universities, which can cost significantly less than private schools.

Thanks! Sticker price isn’t our primary concern and she definitely will be applying to US schools broadly. She’s been researching accommodation and cost of living for the UK unis that are currently on her shortlist (not so shortlist). She is less interested in being in a huge city like London and so we are estimating around 7-9000 pounds for accommodation expenses and about the same for food and other living expenses per nine month school year. Let me know if you think 18000 pounds per year is way too low. Her dad is an academic at an expensive private US college. Wanna guess what it costs per year?

Hi, OP -

Apologies for being late to your thread.

I taught at a Public Ivy in the US for about 15 years after doing a highly desirable postdoc there. My husband is British and we relocated here for personal reasons. My new department immediately assigned me not only to participating as one of the academics on the admissions team - you will be familiar with School and Departmental level admissions from this thread, and possibly from before - but I was also designated as the international specialist.

Ordinarily I am not shy about giving advice. I think your daughter’s slightly niche and disparate interests, together with your estimate of her outcomes, warrant the involvement of a placement specialist. I have never said this before. But a good fit is the key to a successful university experience.

If your daughter wants to come to the UK, she needs to start by identifying five attractive and viable degree programmes. This is where specialist knowledge is invaluable.

There are man regional universities throughout the UK with a few very highly ranked programmes from which a degree carries great weight. Only a good professional advisor really knows how to match them to a particular applicant. This is definitely not to rule out the possibility that the best fit will be at a more elite university! Only to say that I’ve been learning since I moved here how widely dispersed the pockets of excellence are.

It’s true that everyone needs the £££ now and international applicants have some advantage, but the degree varies.

I echo everyone’s advice on the pedagogical advantages of Scotland, and I will emphasise that it is fairly easy to change between reasonably related degree programmes early on (usually).

I haven’t RTFT but I recommend the Complete University Guide for useful
profiles about degree programmes

Best wishes to DD

In cities like Edinburgh and Bristol you are looking far more than 7k for accommodation. Uni Halls fees should be available online, private halls will be much more for a self contained studio. Your living costs may be excessive though.

Also - what's her current GPA and how are her standardized test scores? Any APs? Honors classes?

Would she consider Belfast (in Northern Ireland, UK) for Geography (which could lead to sustainable development, environmental science, urban development/planning)?

Or the Republic of Ireland for geography or a degree in hospitality management? Ireland offers traditional universities and also technological universities with excellent links to industry.

The best thing you can do is approach the International admissions reps at the Universities that you are interested in and ask them your chances of being admitted to any of the courses that you are interested in ( you should be able to find their contact details on the international student pages of the Universities websites & there is often a specific one for North America). As long as your DC is a solid A/B grade student she should qualify for a very good standard of British University.
I do agree with @MrsMariaReynolds that it is a very different University experience from the US so she should be sure that it is what she wants. However as a Brit living in US (with American husband) I was open to my DD going to either country. Personality wise the UK system definitely suited her better (the whole sorority/frat sporting culture did not interest her at all) and she enjoys the greater independence of managing her own meals, accommodation etc. it suits some but not all so do be aware of the differences.
Also from a British mother point of view. Despite the fact that I have lived in the US for the past 20 years & we are based in Liberal Massachusetts which has some of the strongest gun control laws in the country I was worried about the possibility of school shootings if she attended college over here. I know it’s not really that common but it’s something I’ve never got used to. They used to regularly practice shelter in place & lockdown drills at her school (I even have workplace training on what to do if we have an active shooter situation at work - if all else fails hit them with a fire extinguisher & run incase you were wondering). At least that’s one thing I don’t worry about with her attending University in the UK.

The best hospitality management degrees in Ireland have really good employment stats all over the world. They offer a LOT of hands-on experience, internships, etc.

DelphiGirl - do you actually know Lancaster Uni? It's eighth in the UK for geography and environmental science according to The Times Good University Guide. Great Uni with a collegiate system (like the US) and flexible degree that allows up to two additional subjects in the first year. Would highly recommend.

Great location, close to lots of fab places with historic Lancaster city on the doorstep.

We live in south west London and it's very popular around here. DD started in September and loves it. She exceeded her AAB offer.

This.

100%.

Be practical. Look at community colleges instead of paying the full whack for four years at a mediocre American or British university. Take the time to figure out what she wants to do. Apply with an Associates degree to her local state university. Do a year abroad if offered.

A business degree with a concentration or certificate in hospitality management would be a good route for her. Or a degree in environmental science or geography if she leans more in that direction.

And whilst it might once have been a bit brutalist in terms of its architecture it’s really a very beautiful and impressive campus now and no longer a wind tunnel either. You can see the sea from various points on campus. My favourite is the architecture building gardens looking out across the fields to the sea.

She would be classed as a well off student with 7-9000 for nine months after rent.

I have one at Exeter and one at Royal Holloway and they have £100 a week left after rent and bills except Wi-Fi. They both survive on that.
They both now have part time jobs this year as a top up.
They earn average £80 a week but they are saving that…..they say 🤣🤣

With her grade profile she would be fine putting UoL as a choice. She shouldn’t put hope, but LJMU could be an idea.

Yes, eye-watering. Two of my kids have graduated from private universities in the US (I'm Irish but living in the US, kids all born here). No two students among their friends paid the same cost of attendance. Mine had almost full rides and ended up with extremely manageable student loan debt (paid off easily).

Your daughter would get a better education at a state school in the US than she would get at a middle of the road British university, and she would find herself far more employable in the US afterwards with an American undergrad degree too. Unless she has dual citizenship, she will find it hard to secure a working visa outside of the US upon graduation.
Some state universities offer good deals even to out of state students.

You are also looking at a situation where a British university might drop a course or no longer offer modules she is interested in, or a department could be simply shut down, when she's committed and foreclosed other options. The British university sector is in dire straits right now.

Universities do not have endowments to fall back on, and many are accepting foreign students whose English is so poor that they cannot participate in group work or contribute meaningfully to class discussions, seminars, etc. It is a very frustrating experience for students and teachers alike, but universities are desperate for the higher fees paid by foreign students

I agree completely with @poetryandwine. I think this is a decision that would really benefit from some expert input. I'm American with three kids who were raised in the UK. Their trajectories have been one to Oxbridge, one to a US Ivy and one to small liberal arts college in the US (and the third has been far and away the best experience).

Adding that I also agree with @mathanxiety about employability if she's planning to end up back in the US - a more middle of the pack uni might have some truly excellent programs, but very few US employers are going to truly understand the value of many of them.

Also adding - I completely understand and am supportive of the inclination to want to be out of the US right now. It's not as insane here, but fairly divided, and although universities are a bit of a microcosm, those divisions are more likely to be apparent outside of larger cities (in my experience).

My child is at Liverpool John Moores. He if their flatmates is from the US. They offer a lot of vocational courses. They are highly regarded for my child’s subject with industry links. I don’t known about the subject area your Dd is looking at.

have you thought about Salford? They were my other child’s insurance choice. Close to Manchester but campus based and very big into sustainability.

I think there’s some scaremongering about UK universities on this thread. It’s true that some universities are in trouble and departments are closing but most places are absolutely fine.

@Valleysaurus have you seen this agency, they say they’re free! https://www.studyin-uk.com/about/global-agency/

I think she'd like Scottish uni as they can study more subjects over four years similar to America- st Andrews if she had the right grades or Edinburgh are both charming

Bath is lovely place or York or Warwick all have campus feeels but close to pretty cities. Nottingham has good campus based life.

Canterbury is charming pretty town and lower grades needed

I second @poetryandwine . There are a lot of very well-meaning opinions on this thread but they aren't coming from the knowledge of international HE of a professional advisor. It is absolutely crucial, when studying HE overseas, that the degree is recognised in the country of origin/passport. Many UK degrees are unfortunately not worth the paper they are written on for foreign students because nobody back home has ever heard of the university or course.

This.

You are making very important points here @MrsMariaReynolds.

International fees are very high for a far from first-rate experience.

You have way more flexibility as an international student. Courses requiring AAA will be open to applications for your dd.

If you are looking at a uni asking lower then Reading would suit. Nice uni. Nice campus. Excellent for environmental science

Unis offer way lower to international students as they need them. Unis typically asking AAA would consider the OPs dd with her grade level

Really great thoughts! Thank you. As an American, I wouldn’t presume to know the quality of UK universities other than, and setting Oxbridge aside, they generally have a very solid international reputation. I can speak with some familiarity about US higher ed as an academic here for the past 15 years. I am confident in saying that pedigree, aside from the handful of American universities you all are familiar with, is worth very little. Even in careers where pedigree seems to matter more (e.g. NY finance/consulting, DC politics, west coast tech), a name brand school may buy you some access to networks and little else. Despite the Harvard club’s incessant reminder that they’ve gone to Harvard. And our daughter isn’t likely to be a competitive applicant at US pedigree institutions anyway.

You might be surprised at just what little stock employers here place in a college degree, from anywhere. My experience is that which uni you go to matters very little on the job market - aside from it ticking a requirement and, more valuably, serving as a conversation starter with an interviewer or hiring manager.

I’ve done a fair amount of hiring (admittedly in specialized fields of entertainment and media) and if I were to see an applicant from an overseas university - any university, it would be more interesting. I would, whether warranted or not, assume the candidate to be somewhat adventurous and would be curious to learn more about those adventures.

So, given my experience (biases?) I’m probably a little less concerned about reputation or direct vocational placements than most. Even a bit less so than our daughter to be honest. Wherever she ends up, it’s my hope that it’s a positive environment, where she’s surrounded by friendly people and pushed to grow - personally and academically. With those goals in mind, I think a lot of the schools everyone has mentioned could fit the bill. We shall see…

Thanks so much!