Parents of US student looking for general UK uni advice

[Valleysaurus]

Hello

Our eldest daughter is a junior in high school in the States and is seriously considering pursuing her bachelors course at a UK university. Her high school marks and test scores will not be high enough for her to be competitive at the more selective universities. If we understand the UK entry requirements, we suspect our daughter would qualify for courses with entry requirements at the ABB or BBB level. We don't think she is particularly concerned about institutional pedigree, just fit. Likewise, international fees are not a primary consideration in our choice because, believe it or not, even at the international rate, many UK universities are more affordable than their US counterparts.

Like many high school students in the United States, she does not have a clear idea of what course she would like to study in university, but we suspect she will settle on a course focused on environmental studies, sustainability, conservation or tourism and hospitality. Which leads to the questions:

Given her applicant profile, which UK universities (if any) have a closer-knit campus community? Think a lot of students living in university accommodations and/or located in a city that is what we might call a "college town" in the States.

Are sandwich programs at all useful for international students in helping to find work post graduation?

Is it weird that admissions representatives are not returning our emails? We've contacted a few universities with questions about entry for 26/27 school year and it's been crickets...

Thanks!

I think there is a big difference in your two wordings, @boys3 . The second one is helpful! There is an overemphasis on the Russell Group (+) on this Board, IMO, and a fair amount of snootiness towards the post 1992s. I really dislike it and other symptoms of academic snobbishness on MumsNet.

I would agree that as a nation we currently award some degrees that represent poor value for money. At the same time, I was most sincere about those pockets of excellence. (Disentangling the two is part of the problem if we want to rationalise HE). So with respect to your first choice of wording, which I took at face value, I was serious but in a trivial way.

Your emphasis earlier on being a ‘facty’ person wasn’t exactly without sarcasm, though I found it amusing. :)

Did the DD here ask for the most popular universities for Americans? Not sure that was what she said she looking for. Hence the suggestions that a consultant might help as the choice appears overwhelming.

The list for environmental science is full of RG and the 60s unis and post 92 which are very good. Some of the universities mentioned are remote from the broader cultural opportunities in the uk. Falmouth and Aberystwyth feel remote. Oxford is a vibrant city where you can actually get football tickets. The uni rows and there’s even punting: as the op originally requested. OB is brilliant for transport links and Oxford is pretty safe.

The reason Americans flock to Saint Andrews, Edinburgh and Glasgow is due to aggressive marketing by those universities towards Americans who are so price elastic (by International standards) about the costs of HE. That may also be true of some English universities now, but I don't have the information. It's a good idea to tread a well worn path for your own nationality when choosing an overseas university as the chances that there is brand recognition and a useful alumni network back home increase exponentially.

I want to visit Belfast now! There is so much choice it is so difficult to really choose. Having been on Mumsnet for many years, there is a lot of southern UK bias and snobbery around post 1992 universities. Having said that and having visited a lot of unis I will say that I have my favourites and own biases. Exeter, Durham and Lancaster are very popular so if the grades aren’t high enough, it will go to clearing. Clearing in my opinion, having been through it, is stressful and should be avoided. So I would avoid by having more of a spread of choices. Liverpool is not an outdoorsy city. It is a cocktails and party place. I love that women wear curlers in the day ready for the evening but as an outdoor girl myself it would not be the city for me. Back to Wales, what about Cardiff? Cardiff is a city with really good links to London airports, also has an airport, by the sea, Has great swimming, ice hockey, rugby, football venues, Wales is environmentally friendly, the Welsh government is focused on the environment and tourism. The Breacon Beacons /Bannau Brecheiniog are really close for beautiful walks and there are loads of areas of scientific interest / castles /history to explore. It is a Russell group uni, lots of culture, a a TV studio.

Bias and snobbery around universities doubtless is a thing. However, credentialism is also a thing and life is immeasurably better if people who matter recognise your university and/or course of study.

Ritasueandbobtoo9 Belfast is definitely a city that is having its moment. It should be right up there if you are wanting a City Break. Wonderful Game of Thrones scenery, heaps of history, not just modern, great local produce, and a distinct culture. I don't know much about the University other than it old and used to be prestigious. Then the Troubles came and it fell off people's lists. It's now quarter of a century since the ceasefire, and so I reckon worth looking at for someone wanting "good value" for their grades.

The streets around the University where students live are named after places in the middle east, Jerusalem Street, Palestine Street etc, known collectively as The Holylands. Apparently St Patricks night in the Holylands is real Craic.

Sussex seems like a great option if they do a suitable course. I definitely think being close to an airport will make a huge difference to her experience. Whilst we have trains and public transport, the longer your journey and more exchanges the more precarious your journey can be.

I recommended Essex due to easy access to Stansted but Gatwick would probably be better with budget airlines for trips to Europe, flights to the US from Gatwick, quick and easy train to London. Brighton has so much to offer a student and would be a very interesting place to spend 3 years as an international student. Mind you, I expect Essex has the best weather and more sunny days but Essex is probably too easy to get in to for international students and she can aim higher.

Not Bath. It rains a lot and they get all the storms that come in from the Atlantic. Also, it's full of A star and A grade students.

@Ceramiq I don’t think the OP is bothered about alumni back home and standing of the uni. She’s said that quite a lot. I can see being in a group of Americans can be appealing but the OP didn’t ask for this aspect of a uk university.

@TizerorFizz My post is a warning, not a summary of the OP's thinking.

@Ritasueandbobtoo9 Thanks! Cardiff would definitely be on our list. But I did read that it has fared pretty poorly with cuts to staff and programs. Is the bloodletting finished?

Cardiff isn’t alone in this. Others you are considering have similar plans in place.

Cardiff and Kent are in acute trouble at the moment, but about 25% of UK HE is reckoned to be highly vulnerable.

I think lots of Unis are in similar positions really as there has been over expansion but it will sort itself out.

Durham needs to make £20million pounds of cuts too. The Cardiff cuts seem to be around Nursing, Theology and Music but there is a Conservatoire in Cardiff as well .

As part of your due diligence process @Valleysaurus wonkhe provide useful and informed insights.

one example is https://wonkhe.com/blogs/honesty-and-accuracy-is-about-to-get-even-more-important/

https://wonkhe.com/blogs/an-early-look-at-2023-24-university-finances/

is an early look at the latest years accounts as available across the sector. It has a number of excellent data tableau where you can see sector wide, by university group, by individual university etc.

I have to admit to not reading the full thread but no one seems to have said that if sustainability is really important to your daughter then there are measures for that: THE (covers the research the uni is doing) and People and Planet (covers more of the action they are taking) she'll want to be with people who also want to make a difference and care about sustainability and where there is opportunity to have an impact.

Thanks for the suggestions on resources for financial and sustainability data. These look really helpful! Time to add a few more columns to our universities spreadsheet!

I live in Swansea, it’s a small city (250,000 pop) but lots to offer. There are actually two universities; Swansea and UWTSD. I think I read that your daughter likes to row - she’d have the option of rowing in the sea and on the river.

Both universities are close to the sea and Swansea provides easy access to the Gower peninsula and the mountains. We are very fortunate from a geographical perspective.

You apply directly for FY, OP

@Valleysaurus you do not want to consider Glasgow, unless you live in a really impoverished area of Pittsburgh (the equivalent).

I strongly disagree.

U Glasgow is in the West End, the upscale area of a thriving city. I love it and more importantly the students are happy.

For STEM, IMO Lancaster and Glasgow are the two hidden gems of UK HE. And very different.

Also I believe the statement about Pittsburgh is quite outdated now. I visited CMU and Pitt when living in America. The city crntre was vibrant and seemed thriving and full of culture.

I think it's only just started.

Why no love for Glasgow or Pittsburgh? Both are on her list for potential places to apply. We haven't yet been to Glasgow but have read it's a fun city with a young vibe. We have spent time in Pittsburgh and it's a fun little city. Perhaps you're thinking of Philadelphia - specifically Kensington?

Glasgow is very popular with USA students, they love the Hogwarts vibe. The students are in the beautiful west end with botanical gardens not in most derived areas. Uni put on lots of events that appeal to international students eg trips out to countryside, burns night celebration last Friday £5 in Hungarian museum. If you follow them on instagram you can see type of thing - Chinese dragons in the cloisters this week.
My dc spends most of her time at uni campus and surrounding areas rarely ventures in to city centre. It’s got good transport links.
I’ve been to Pittsburgh too and it was a nice interesting city.