Architecture vs Urban Planning

[maymummy22]

DD has applied to study architecture at uni and has had a couple of offers but one uni has instead offered her urban planning. Urban planning isn’t a degree she’d looked at but she is most interested in sustainable design and how spaces - internal and external - are used by people and how buildings enhance the environment and community. It seems that a 1st degree in either architecture or urban planning can lead to an MA in either so neither route shuts off later opportunities but is it easier to go from one to the other? And given her interests is there a compelling reason to do one or the other? TIA

She needs to look extremely closely at the content of the courses she has been offered places on. TBH both architecture and urban planning degrees are quite dodgy on the whole.

She needs to look at architecture carefully including career prospects. Dd has done her first three years and got a 1st class degree. Out of her cohort she is the only one who got a Part 1 job in industry which you need. We only saw three adverts in six months! Pay is shit, minimum wage but she was happy to have the job as you can’t qualify without it.

shes just been made redundant, but it’s ok as she’s done her year and was planning on going back to uni in Sept for her part two theory. But shit to be unemployed for the next few months. No jobs about. Most of her friends are working in shops.

she will do the next two years at uni, and will then need to find a part two job.

the course is very intense, 60 hours a week. At DD’s old uni the students had a shelf in the studio for their sleeping bags as they were frequently there till the small hours prepping for crits. The workload is crazy. So then grab a couple of hours sleep in the studio before presenting.

some architecture courses have quite a poor reputation. She needs to be careful where she goes. I know nothing about urban planning.

So yes it’s 7 years in total.

3 years uni
1 year in industry
2 years uni
1 year industry
professional registration

courses need to be riba validated. Or if not she can sit a riba exam independently. But i wouldn’t touch a non riba course.

Qualify 'dodgy'??
it takes 7 years to qualify as an Architect, something to keep in mind, though you will be working whilst studying towards the end

Sorry to have nothing to add. Just read the responses. Gosh I had a very rose tinted view of Architecture as a profession, probably due to coffee table design books. Doesn't sound great in real life.

I would take an urban planning offer as 'you don't quite cut the mustard for architecture at this uni'. If architecture is what she wants to do, she should pursue it. Urban planning sits between architecture and human geography and I think can be a poor cousin to both these traditional subjects as a first degree. My DS was offered AAB for geography and ABB for urban planning by one uni, indicating that it is either less popular, less academically demanding or just less useful. He chose human geography at UCL and did some modules at the Barlett school of architecture. His areas of interest were gentrification, social housing and transport.

I've known architects switch to planning but not the other way round.
You need to make sure it is RTPI accredited for planning.

Thanks, all helpful. She’s very aware of the total 7 years for architecture!! - although not overall very different to many professional jobs when you take into account degree plus professional qualification.
She’s predicted A*, A, A in her A levels and all the architecture courses she’s applied for are in the top 10 and are RIBA qualified.
My instinct was still that architecture the better bet, with the potential to move into planning if that becomes her major area of interest after her 1st degree and that seems to chime with muggle and seeline

Also interested in your “dodgy” comment ceramiq

If she’s looking at top ten then the courses themselves should be fine. Look at attrition rates, DD’s cohort started at 120 and 35 -40 finished. Her course was not top ten though so maybe that’s part was partly to do with who started/they couldn’t hack it. Dunno. Think her course wanted BBC or maybe BBB.

My dc has applied for the Mplan at Sheffield uni (not dodgy!) but I would say architecture and urban planning are essentially pretty different degrees.

I think UP is not as well known or as high profile hence a grade difference to geog in the offer. There’s a fair bit of cross over in year 1 with geography BA - the option of joint honours and also swapping from one to the other after year 1 too.

Planning and surveying professionals are in demand, the courses we looked were all accredited, they included live briefs with big companies and at two of the unis we visited, all students had industry specific job offers before they graduated. This is what was important to my dc.

I can’t speak for architecture but I’m sure if you research the course / institution thoroughly it will become clear which are worth applying for and which is right for your dc.

Dodgy meaning the course content isn't high quality and the career prospects aren't great.

are you an architect ceramiq?
Degree course content is regulated by the RIBA, not by individual universities.
Re career prospects, I'm not up to date with current info here

No, but I have been up very close to architects and urban planning professionals and there's a big contingent that knows there are huge issues.

Urban Planning and architecture, whilst linked are quite different degrees. If she is more creative she may want to see whether the urban planning course has modules for ‘urban design’. Urban planning, can cover a large range of interesting topics but less likely to offer the creative aspect that architecture does.

TBH there is very little creativity in either architecture or urban planning unless you are in one of the few traditional/classical firms. AI is also going to undermine architecture even further.

If she does architecture she can qualify as an architect and chose to go into urban design later down the line.

you can’t swap from urban design to being an architect.

from what you’ve said she enjoys it does seem more urban design related

I've known three people who did planning degrees and for two of them it was because they had failed to get in for architecture. Only one went on to have an actual career in the field.

My experience with urban planners is that it's mostly bureaucracy. Awful.

@maymummy22 DH is a structural engineer and civil engineer. Over decades he has worked with architects where his firm provided the structural designs and calcs.

The one thing that many architects find is that employment fluctuates. Yes, some will get a gilded job for life, but others really struggle as outlined above. Most of us know we have a boom and bust economy. When it’s bust, we don’t build! So we don’t need as many architects. We have many friends who are architects and most have had a bumpy ride from time to time. So ignoring the rubbish about it being dodgy (?) my advice is to be ruthless about which course. Bath, Sheffield and a few others are highly regarded. Lots of newer schools - not so much. With her predicted grades I would hope for some decent offers.

Regarding planning - there’s a shortage of planning officers. However we have friends who are planners who work for city regeneration schemes, private property companies (house builders) and planning consultancies. They are in demand to get housing sites through planning. There’s work coming up!

So what she needs to evaluate is what she really wants, the universities she can get to and where there’s sustained work. Our friends who are planners don’t work for local authorities but all started with them. They have mostly gone into consultancy companies or work for housing developers (the ultimate hire and fire cowboys!) . However the money is good.

It’s probably true to say that too many architecture degees are on offer and the part 1 numbers produced greatly outstrip demand for the grads. The uk is very good at that! (Law is the same) So be very discerning about where she goes.

I forgot: yes I believe Architecture is more creative and planning less so. However planning creates a whole new concept for spaces which can also be exciting. I would think architects could become planners though but not the other way round. We also have a friend who is a landscape architect and always loved that career.

I work in real estate for one of the big firms. Planners are very much in demand. You can go two ways with this as well, traditional town planning doing actual individual applications or more regeneration led working on town centre master plans and looking at the overall impact to quality of life, long term impacts etc. The benefit of planning is the grad schemes still exist and will pay for you to do RTPI etc.

@maymummy22 I know it's a bit late now since your DD has already applied but she may be interested in this:
https://www.createstreetsfoundation.org.uk/creating-places-academy/summer-school/

Thanks everyone, especially squirrrel and tizerorfizz; this has really helped our thinking process. Bath and Sheffield are 2 of her choices, along with Cardiff and Nottingham. She’s liked what she’s seen of architecture and so I think that will remain her first choice but useful to have more insight into potential future direction - eg she may disagree but I can see her eventually as a project manager. Speaking as someone who went into a career completely different to my degree, I know there are many paths to take.
Thanks also to ceramiq for highlighting that summer school

@maymummy22 Just to say, some architects project manage but others don’t. It will depend on the employer and the project and ultimately what the client will pay for. Careers though, can take off in surprising ways!