Architecture vs Urban Planning

[maymummy22]

DD has applied to study architecture at uni and has had a couple of offers but one uni has instead offered her urban planning. Urban planning isn’t a degree she’d looked at but she is most interested in sustainable design and how spaces - internal and external - are used by people and how buildings enhance the environment and community. It seems that a 1st degree in either architecture or urban planning can lead to an MA in either so neither route shuts off later opportunities but is it easier to go from one to the other? And given her interests is there a compelling reason to do one or the other? TIA

I did my first degree in architecture then switched to town and regional planning and worked in the field for decades.

I switched to planning because I wasn’t very good at architecture and couldn’t think of anything else to do. It was easy to switch to planning and many fellow students did but switching the other way was unheard of. I believe it’s still the same from fellow students who are now on the staff at the uni we went to.

If I was her I’d hold out for architecture but then I wouldn’t recommend a career in planning at the moment for various reasons.

Good luck to her!

Not all planners work for local authorities though. There’s work for consultancies and regeneration consortia.

I’ve worked in the public and private sector and I’ve been a consultant to government policy teams. I’ve worked overseas and I’ve been self employed. I don’t think there’s much I haven’t done apart from householder applications. I surprised myself by becoming passionate about town and country planning 🤣

Planning does offer opportunities to people prepared to look for them - nonetheless it’s currently not a career path I’d recommend. Especially to someone who wants to be an architect because they are looking for a career where they can be creative. The opportunities for creativity can be limited in planning, I’ve always considered it more quasi-legal. It is however a fabulous route to career diversification. Ten years after qualification there were only two of my degree year of 38 still working in planning. Fifteen years post degree there was only me.

There is a shortage of planners in all areas of the profession. The RTPI is looking at alternative routes into chartered status which possibly recognises that a lot of local authorities have filled entry level posts with in house admin staff rather than graduates.

@Jins I think if the grads are not employed, it’s difficult to see how planners will qualify. However it’s the same for architects. Technicians are cheaper.

@TizerorFizz exactly! I’m not sure what the percentages into employment are at the moment but there aren’t as many LPA jobs as you’d expect for the shortages they claim. All my nearest authorities are using consultants to clear the backlog - that would pay for a graduate or two. The private sector generally wants experience and I haven’t heard of many graduate jobs recently.

It’s a really interesting subject and there are loads of directions to develop a career but planning professionals are frequently undervalued (and underpaid!) compared to other development professionals.

In some roles it is advantageous to use consultants who, by virtue of working for multiple clients, have a breadth of experience that employees don't.

@Ceramiq agreed but householder applications and simple enforcement cases?

That’s what consultants are doing locally for £150 an hour. I know because I’ve done it when my business went through a slow period.

@Jins We were in a LA that was very slow regarding planning. One of the worst. They have now merged 3 authorities into one and it’s improved. With the government wanting to free up planning, I’m not sure what the future will look like. The new statutory housing targets will take work and identifying suitable sites now there’s grey field.

Architects get work when there’s buoyancy in the economy. That’s slow at the moment too!

I have no idea why people think architecture is a creative career. Yes for the 1% but everyone else works in Mr & Mrs Baker's semi detached extension (they want exactly what everyone take in their street has, but slightly bigger) or works in a council department.
I get the kudos of saying you are an architect but it's also not a great salary verses the years of study and the student debt (unless money is no object via bank of mum and dad).

I went to art school and there seemed to be zillions of architect students graduating every year. They definitely worked the hardest/longest hours but I wonder how many of them actually ended up with creative careers?
Seemed a bit of a waste of all that brain power and work ethic to me, but I suppose if you are really passionate about it then the chance to study it for 7 years is lovely, I agree AI is going to feature very strongly and maybe becoming very skilled in using that during uni will ensure your cv stands out when you graduate?

There’s definitely an over supply of grads. The same applies to psychology and law.. However that has been talked about earlier.. It’s also, in my view, vital to get into the best schools of architecture. This gives DCs a better chance.

As DH is a structural engineer, he’s worked on many commercial projects designed by architects. They don’t all work for smaller firms doing house extensions. There are also some larger firms that are doing very sizeable and prestigious commercial projects. The aim is to get qualified and there are jobs, just not enough of them. Plus it’s often technicians who design residential extensions (boxes), not architects.

As for using planning consultants - these planners must be qualified. You cannot be a consultant for anything without qualifications. Someone has to offer the post degree training or there’s no qualified planners. Consultants could employ ex local authority planners but obviously there must be a route for qualification.

The urban planners I have come across have often done Geography degrees. While I understand why Geography is relevant to urban planning, unfortunately those geography graduates are rarely creative people and the 3D visualisation of towns and cities that urban planners need in an ideal world aren't their forte.

Look at landscape architecture.

That’s very true @Ceramiq. Out of 38 on my post grad course 35 had a geography degree, two engineers and me being the only architect. Only the engineers and I could read plans which to be honest is more fundamental than 3D visualisations which tend to come later in the process anyway.

However planning is much broader than that and for every planner that deals directly with development there are 3 or 4 who rarely look at detailed plans as they are looking at strategic allocations, analysing future needs etc. Not forgetting the rural specialists, the conservation officers, the enforcement teams and the minerals and waste planners.

I agree with @TizerorFizz that government policy to free up planning makes it hard to imagine what the future will look like. I also agree that the need for post qualification training to lead to chartered status is essential and the apparent shortages of suitable jobs has been a worry for a while.

@Jins There is an enormous amount of work to plan where all this development is going. It’s a huge headache for many LAs. There is work in the housebuilding sector. No doubt about that.

@TizerorFizz I can imagine it is a headache! I still recall sifting through call for sites submissions and each one, however ridiculous it seemed, needed proper analysis. I think I’d enjoy identifying grey field sites as I’m old enough to remember doing the same for brownfield 😆

Successive governments (right and left) are highly influenced by the work of Create Streets which is one of the reasons the urban planning profession is likely to change. 3D visualisation skills (which are innate before they are acquired and refined) are essential.

Not wishing to hijack the OP but I'm finding this all really interesting, thanks to the knowledgeable posters! I'll arm dc with questions when we go to the offer holder day. The MPlan is also RICS accredited so this offers another direction - and of course, if neither appeal, there's the option to graduate after 3 years and do something completely different.

Just to add a slightly left field angle to this. You mentioned she maybe wants to move into project management. Construction project management and especially quantity surveying is in great demand, pays extremely well, is broad and varied and doesn't take as long to qualify (RICS) as architecture.
Something to maybe consider.

Architecture is in danger of AI. Town / urban planning can be very difficult with stakeholder engagement, and can be quite frank nasty and intimidating.

Construction PM or QS / CM is a great shout. I work in the industry and we are desperate for QS's but it's very rigid. General practice surveying is another option.

@TheJollyCoralEagle I cannot begin to quantify the issues DH has had to put right because project management employees simply do not understand the design principles and cannot recognise when a design needs tweaking due to unforeseen issues. It’s been a total money spinner for his company over the years. Unfortunately the construction industry is averse to employing engineers. DH was a consultant for decades working for numerous housing developers but their site management left a lot to be desired. They all pay well but many are not qualified to understand the engineering component.

@TizerorFizz I can well imagine.

One of the insights of the Grenfell inquiry was the extent to which the very many different actors in the construction value chain don't understand one another's jobs/products.

The whole building industry is very difficult. Pay is terrible and there are very few jobs around. The building industry is always the first to go into recession and the last to come out. Architectural practices work on wafer-thin margins; hence the low pay and job insecurity.

@Ceramiq Half of them won’t be qualified in anything professional. We have split many building professions up into segments. So each profession is supposed to be an expert in their sector of the work but many people are not problem solvers and don’t have varied experience.

However architecture is a regulated profession and those who can get the part 2 training can do very well and have enjoyable work. It’s a challenge though.

Lots of interesting perspectives and options, thank you. She’s wanted to be an architect for many years and hasn’t been put off so far! One thing I’ve been happy with is that it is a self-contained BA/BSc degree and at the end of the 3 years she can branch out into other areas if she wants - it’s not a 7 year set path. This thread has been really useful for identifying some of those options and confirming that it’s a good base for a broad range of careers.

I think the splitting of professions into specialisms is, as you say, a problem in many areas - see also the corporate appetite for people to be “deep” specialists rather than having breadth - leading to a lack of broad understanding and hence less innovation and agility, as well as less long term job fulfilment imo