Would the fact uni of York is in financial difficulties put you off your dc going there?

[JennyTals]

? Would that influence you at all ?

I might be wrong but i thought there was something that if a student gets into university within a certain period of finishing the access course the fees are written off? Plus they’d normally be living at home so not needing to pay accommodation fees which would be a substantial saving.

so if you get the access course fees written off and not had to pay out for accommodation then that’s a saving of 20k plus.

I get what you’re saying about the FE course not been as specialised teaching but they still join a normal degree from Year 1 so will get all the teaching they need from the start. I’d say that a year of doing an Access course to engineering before starting an engineering degree is as good if not better preparation than whatever A levels someone who starts the degree at 18yo might have done. We don’t say the A levels someone who students need a year of specialist knowledge engineering teaching before starting a degree.

How the hell did they get to that position?

Same as everyone else - requirement to 'sell' your main product (UG degrees to home students) at virtually the same price as 12 years ago; inability to expand into more lucrative markets (overseas students) because of Gov restrictions on visas and in the meantime costs increase as they do everywhere (estate costs, fuel bills, salary bills, pension costs, NI costs etc), so reduce costs by making staff (your biggest cost) redundant, making remaining academic staff teach larger groups, professional services staff have to provide poorer (ITS, library, MH support etc) services which means a poorer experience for students.... It's awful. Really - for everyone now.

I think this is Blair's fault, with his ridiculous plan to get 50% of young people into university. Universities have expanded to accommodate this, and now people are realising that all these degrees aren't needed, and they would have been better off doing an apprenticeship in plumbing.

There's going to be a lot of pain over the next decade as the university sector contracts back to where it should have been. Some universities will fold, but I doubt that York will be one of them.

Come on - £100 million! This reeks of incompetence on a sky high level. Maybe they over-extended on all those outposts (UK and international) and refurbishments. A read in their entry at the Times Good University Guide 2025 tells me that the university spent £64 million this year renovating the Delia Derbyshire building.

I note there's lots of universities not on the list, which makes me wonder what they're doing right.

I note there's lots of universities not on the list, which makes me wonder what they're doing right.

Equally those on the list could be the ones actively doing something about it, and those not on the list are massively underprepared, assuming things will magically turn round.

Does anyone one to cross reference those on the UCU list with those with less than 60 net liquidity days from here?
https://www.hesa.ac.uk/data-and-analysis/finances/kfi

I think this is Blair's fault, with his ridiculous plan to get 50% of young people into university.

To be fair to Blair, he wanted 50% of under 30s to be qualified to at least Level 4, so included HNCs and other sub-degree quals which need expanding. Which is the one thing @TizerorFizz and I agree on

@titchy Yes, we have around 50% degree holders in the workforce. Only around 37% of school leavers go to uni. We do agree that there should be a wider spectrum of HE readily available - I think!

It’s also increasingly obvious that some students will want to stay at home to study due to cost. It’s not cost effective for them to do a degree miles away but working and studying below degree level should be readily available for them at many post 92 unis. This type of study was always provided at colleges of HE and polys. Now gone and converted to unis but we need the structure back. Cuts at unis don’t help.

The current loan system is set up to actively discourage sub-degree courses unfortunately. Apparently the new LLE will facilitate these, but the devil will be in the detail. And we are desperate for the detail DfE - really get a move on!

Rubbish suggestions do not qualify as "thinking outside the box" that is even more hilarious than the suggestion itself.

@NormalUntilNot What are your ideas then? It’s easy to be rude and condescending but the unis nearly all have issues with money. So what would you do if tax is out of the question or higher fees? I’m not sure you can think of anything!

Oh I'm sorry. I thought the title of the thread was about having second thoughts about York based on their finances, not "let's put our silly heads together and think up ridiculous ideas about how to waste even more money and dilute the prestige and rigor of a perfectly reputable university"

I agree you are the “silly head” who is rude and no ideas at all. It will worry families if they think courses will cease. Most people are already saying the experience at uni is not what it should be. What ideas have you got for helping students have a better experience? Also frequently threads lead on to a wider discussion. Why not discuss what to do.

@stubiff The only person I know who did a foundation had great stem A levels. Just the wrong ones for the course - vet at Nottingham. Very bright student and high grades.

Gulp - another @TizerorFizz post I agree with

Parents and applicants should be worried - or at least aware. The OfS was set-up to provide regulatory oversight of potential new entrant providers (private providers). They have now paused this activity, including assessing those who applied to become registered providers some months ago. The reason - to free up resource to deal with large provider exit from the market and mergers.

And yes good point that FYs often enable those with the wrong A level subjects to study at degree level (one of my dc's friends did an Engineering FY and is now a chartered engineer having selected non-STEM A levels).

@titchy!!! Am I always so awful? Opinions are worth looking at even if you don’t agree with them. I’m not an ogre but I enjoy discussion. That’s an interesting observation on the OfS. It does seem highly possible to me. It’s likely to be survival mode for some.

If fewer students were needing halls at uni - more available housing sites for those who need it? Or more students living in halls for longer easing pressure on rental sector? Lots to think about.

Yes. Finance for below degree level courses should be looked at too unless they can really gear up apprenticeships.

I don't know you - I cannot comment!!! You don't appear though to have any understanding of just how difficult some kids' circumstances are, and how beneficial uni can be to them. You also I think regard 85% of graduates gaining grad level employment within 15 months a failure rather than a success which is madness! Maybe take off the privilege blinkers occasionally?

(Am aware I often come across as very snarky on MN - honestly in real life I'm pretty quiet and a good listener! I just care hugely about HE and the transformational effect it has on those from disadvantaged backgrounds. And sadly also care hugely about the desperate shitshow the sector has become - through no fault of its own.)

@titch Not sure where you get 85% a failure from but I would suggest most DC entering a prestigious uni would expect to get a job they feel commensurate with their qualifications within 15 months. I do know some don’t need to or don’t want to.

Im aware that uni can make a huge difference but what I don’t like is DC being sold a pup. There’s no doubt there’s some expensive pups out there. High quality uni advice, high quality courses and high quality careers advice are vital for social mobility. Far too many DC are not happy with the jobs they get and believed a degree would elevate them more. If dc are keen to edge up socially, they need the career to enable this to happen. Therefore I disagree with the poster above that all degrees are equal.

For context: my great grandfather signed with an X. My DH comes from a family of farm workers and straw plaiters. We were not privileged but took our opportunities. Me - very belatedly. And no one helped me at all.

Dc now have to think about fees and maintenance. That puts pressure on to get it right. With that in mind, it’s important to get the advice right to aid social movement.

Regarding foundation years ... one of DD's friends had a torrid time with A levels and ended up doing a FY in psychology at a good Russell Group uni, got a good degree and post-grad qualifications, and is now working in a good job directly related to her degree. A friend's DS had very poor health during his teens, mostly had to be home-tutored and ended with less GCSEs and A levels than the norm. Thanks to a FY he is now on a degree course at another excellent RG uni. Neither could have accessed their degrees without the FY.

Many years ago I taught at a uni which caters to students with non-standard backgrounds, with quite a number coming in from Access courses. Often this worked well, but there were a small number of post-Access students who simply didn't have the skills to cope with a degree course. I got the impression that it was almost impossible to fail, which actually did these students no favours.

Cambridge has a Foundation Year for some courses: https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/courses/foundation-year

I find it interesting that they have identified that some prospective students have the ‘raw calibre’ to attend Cambridge but for a number of reasons may not gave had the academic training to be able to go straight into the rigours of the undergraduate course. I remember an article from years ago that looked into the ‘pooling’ system of Cambridge admissions, and a girl who they judged was extremely able but through disadvantage just hadn’t had the preparation and so was seen as at too great a risk of dropping out if admitted. I like to think there is now a route she could have been offered instead.

Like a PP, my grandfather was from extreme poverty and basically illiterate until he learned to read at 14 - in later life a passionate autodidact. My mother, through grammar schooling and Oxbridge scholarship, totally changed the family’s educational profile - my generation are all Oxbridge grads, the next generation a mix of Oxbridge and top institutions for their ‘thing’.

The massification of HE started in the 1980s way before Blair as Western capitalism moved away from heavy industries to service industries. Those with the most going into post 18 education were doing better economically. Additionally, newer industries didn’t absorb 15/16 years olds as workers quite so easily as they needed more skills - so post 16 and then post 18 education needed to expand.

I agree with both @titchy and @TizerorFizz - it’s in the worst mess since massification and this is sad but I think diversification will be the way out. I think the public are losing their appetite for the debt burden in a flat economy with a slow graduate market so it’s getting tougher to recruit. And if loans go up, as they need to, then the consumers will have more costs and are more risk averse and may be less inclined to apply.

But in terms of the thread, York have responded to their specific situation and have stabilised it.

What is also a huge shame is the sharp fall off of numbers of part time degree students. These were often working adults.

Although students have taken foundations years, they should have been able to do a HND too. Foundations years should be used sparingly in my view.

I can’t help but notice in this list that many of the “universities” are old polytechs and few Russell group unis are on here.

Is the market just naturally self correcting? Who needs an English degree from Keele?

How is that going to lift your chances of a job higher than the national minimum wage? Or ever much beyond a salary of approx £30k long term? There’s no point studying this degree course for all it would pay back over time.

I can’t help but notice that you don’t seem too familiar with the membership of the Russell Group @PlopSofa . Given over half of them are on that list.

Interesting to mention Keele. On R4 this morning was a man who had been written off through his pre-16 schooling but through an inspirational teacher at college had ended up going to university- at Keele - and become a teacher himself.

Some students - first in their family to go to university; from disadvantaged backgrounds; disabled; young carers - may choose a local or ‘less prestigious’ university as they perceive them to be, or they are, more accessible. While they themselves may not massively financially benefit, by taking this initial step, their children or wider family may follow the path they followed, and thereby a whole chain reaction of higher aspiration may occur. I am a ‘2nd generation’ university attendee, as my mother was the first from either side of her family to stay at school to 18 and go on to university. All my siblings went to university, and our children see it as a normal and accepted thing to do - and as a result the overall family’s ‘wealth / class / cultural capital’ has dramatically increased over 2 generations.

If we totally remove ‘relatively accessible degrees’, creating a binary ‘high status academic vs low status vocational’ tertiary sector split, we are at risk of removing those ‘upward pathways’.

Exactly. Plopboys is ignorant and offensive. Many RG universities are contracting too. And anyway, as one has to say day after day, it is just a marketing tag, which would mean little were it not for the idiocy of people, who fall for marketing.
It is no natural correction of the market, as markets are not natural but always rigged. RG universities have been allowed to over recruit, leading to a poorer experience for many,
I hate the discourse in this country about HE.

Plopsofa. Argh.