Deliotte Apprenticeship (ACA) v degree

[Blubell46]

Hello,

My dd is in Year 13 and is applying to uni to study economics and has also applied for apprenticeship course.

She has got an apprenticeship offer from one of the Big4 accountancy to study ACA ( professional qualification).

Just wondering if anyone has a child studying an Apprenticeship and feels they missed out on the Uni life? Or feel that future employers see them differently to graduates?

Just trying to balance both sides of the arguments. Any advice will be appreciated.

Thank you

Is your daughter ready to work full time?

Big companies tend to have a reasonably large cohort of apprentices, and try to make sure they have a community. Also, they are likely to mix with other apprentices on their training/ uni days

No direct experience here, but I'm 2nd generation university & am strongly starting to feel that I don't want DD to go (6 years off!).

University these days feels like a colossal waste of money, for basically an intro to living away from home with a bit of (mine was crappy & v few hours a week, at a v good uni) teaching,

I'd seriously consider the deloitte offer. Paid to study and gain valuable work experience with a quality employer? No debt? Fabulous cohort (no doubt) of similar aged students? She'll have a ball.

I'd also consider how much the workplace will have changed in three years because of tech and AI. I'd want my kids to be in the thick of it so they can react quickly as things change, not studying the theory at uni.

I work for a Big 4 and have 2 kids ar secondary too. We are already talking about options like this.

Having just retired from one of the Big 4, if your DD is really interested in the Apprenticeship route I would not discourage her. It's a highly valued qualification and there will be a cohort of other joiners to socialise with - just with more money than most students.

Personally I got a lot out of my uni studies in growing maturity and independence and would have not been ready for the apprenticeship, however.

Yes she is happy to work and study...looking forward to earning some money.

My husband and I just want to make sure she knows all the options and her not doing a degree will not hinder her getting any jobs in the future.

Have any of your children taken the apprenticeship route?

I work in accountancy. I've never been held back due to a lack of degree.....in fact I didn't even sit a-levels! My professional qualifications, and work experience, were all that I needed. If I were her I'd be snapping their hand off at the chance of the apprenticeship

As long as she’s quite mature, I would go for the Deloitte role. It’s an amazing opportunity and there will be a few her age or slightly older to socialise with. A colleague I work with did it and she’s done really well out of it (above me at work but 8 years younger!)
It is, however bloody hard work with high expectations. An exam failure could see her fired for example, hence why i say is she mature enough. I’m not sure I would have been.

Most apprentices to the big 4 will do a degree first but there is so much new to learn in the ACA qualification it isn’t much of an advantage academically to do an accountancy degree & no advantage to do a non-accountancy degree.
You can do it without a degree obviously.
When I studied many years ago it was like an extension of uni as you went to college to study the exams & all joined in a big cohort & the same time so there was a great social side to it. I don’t know how much the graduates & non-graduates mix as it was all graduates when I started.
I don’t know if graduates are viewed differently, the ACA qualification is a stepping stone into lots of different roles but I’m not sure if they would look back to your previous qualifications or the fact you have the ACA means it irrelevant. If she stayed in practice at an accountancy firm I doubt it would matter but I’m not sure if maybe it could if she moved into industry after to say become and FC. Other posters have suggested not.
You work very long hours at a big 4 firm and you do have to pass the exams otherwise you can lose your job.

The ACA exams are hard. It does happen quite frequently that exam failures result in people loosing their job. I’ve got a few friends who’ve done the ACA with the big 4 and it is a tough few years. All their holiday goes on studying, there is a lot of exam pressure.

Personally I’d encourage uni with the option to still do the ACA afterwards if that’s what they want.

Well, I’m old enough that I didn’t have to pay university fees so obviously that’s a big difference compared to this generation.

But: my university years (PPE at Oxford, then postgrad in the US) were up there with the best years of my life. Friendships made for life. Learning for the sake of it, for the love of it, in company with others of the same mindset. Education rather than mere training.

My ACA years (Big6 firm as it then was)… not so much. A hamster in a wheel, filling out timesheets to account for every 6-minute slot in every day. Horrible dull exams (I am sure they have been reformed since my day). People being ushered off the premises with their little cardboard box of belongings if they failed them. We did have friendships among our cohort, but people rapidly dispersed after qualifying.

I mean - it was a useful time in that getting through it set me up for a good career. But I wouldn’t have missed out on my student years for anything, and am glad my DC are relishing the prospect of university too.

I know these apprenticeships are seriously competitive, though, so congratulations to your DD for being selected. That’s a real achievement in itself.

Thing is that a degree will give lifelong flexibility for other careers. Whereas an aca apprenticeship will, at best, give an accountancy qualification which can pigeon hole the person into financial roles only. If she gets half way through and decides it’s not for her, she’ll have nothing to show for it other than work experience. I just think a degree opens more doors and broadens opportunities.

The Deloitte offer sounds amazing. Many years ago I did a similar thing with big 4, and it was the making of me. I don't think the "uni experience" is what it was, just very expensive now so probably difficult to afford to have much fun. The student loan you get (and will pay back in full for entire working life) doesn't even cover rent these days. The ACA exams are difficult but with Deloitte they'll have the best possible support and world class teaching paid for, and gain valuable work experience. At 21 I was halfway through my ACA exams and could lead a small audit, while people my age who'd been to uni were starting from scratch.

Interesting, I did a maths degree. Hated it. I did so badly, just couldn't understand how dull it was. I have a few good friends from uni. Then I started work with a big 4 accountancy firm. I have to say those first 3 years were cracking. I worked hard, but we played hard. It was great. I still have as many good friends from those first 3 years as I do from university. My DC is not academic so they are on vocational programmes. They work hard and the vocational programme suits them better.

Will she just gain industry qualifications rather than the degree?

Yes, my child did a degree apprenticeship. There was a cohort of apprentices and they definitely all had fun

I'd tell her to go for the apprenticeship personally

Senior role in another big 4

we have four business apprentices in our team and they are excelling

Great experiences, great qualification which they can take to absolutely anywhere (eg c-suite), getting paid without incurring debt, a really great sense of community (lots of great friends with their cohort and other cohorts - going out regularly etc).

Two of our business apprentices have now made manager - a £70k salary at the ripe old age of 24, but without taking away from the social element.

it does not feel like they have lost anything but instead gained a lot.

Are apprentices regarded as highly as graduates? It may be too soon to tell, but do they make partner at the same rate?

One of my former pupils got an apprenticeship as a chemical engineer. At the end of 7 years, she'll have her degree. In the meantime, unlike "normal" undergrads, she's getting a good wage, job experience and representing her company at meetings.

The ACA qualification is changing and your DD will be part of the first cohort sitting the new exams from Sept 25. Here first 6 papers will place a heavy emphasis on data & AI, sustainability & ethics, as well as the more traditional accountancy skills. Two of these 6 will be self study with 4 classroom based. Sept/ Oct will start with a bump, being in the classroom from early Sept.

After that she will have 6 professional stage exams and 2 case study papers at advanced level. She will need to focus on her studies before each batch of exams, then swing back into work mode. Typically she will sit exams as a batch of 3 papers every 6 months with 2 weeks at college, some self study modules, back to work again, 2 weeks at college immediately before her exams and then back to work again after her exam days.

I would caution her to think about how she will feel when her friends are back from uni for their hols and she is slogging towards her June or Sept exams. However, she will have a good salary from day 1 & after the first few months ths it's usually hard to tell who are the school leavers and who are on the grad scheme.

A few years ago I would have said the apprenticeship. However, I know quite a few young people who have dropped out of seemingly prestigious apprenticeships to go to university . They don’t appear to have any regrets
I just find that the apprenticeships can often be very narrow .However, if your dd is sure of the career path she wants to pursue , then she should go for the apprenticeships
The grades required for apprenticeships are usually lower than those for university .
A competitive course such as economics often requires high grades

They are all L7 apprentices taking exactly the same path. They are treated in the same way and have the same opportunities. Few make it to partner whether a grad or school leaver & they are all equally discussing opportunities outside of audit as they sit their final exams. Once you have your ACA qualification, nobody cares how you got there. First time passes in your ACA exams are more important than a degree beforehand.

Really interesting dilemma. I expect your DD has the ability and maturity to balance work and professional exams from 18 as she passed the selection. I agree with PPs that an intellectually challenging ‘theory’ degree with university extracurriculars is better base for career flexibility. However there is no crystal ball to predict what her university experience will be like on the spectrum covered by PPs and what her choices will be in the graduate market in a few years. The balance may be tilted according to what her university offers will be.
Is she the sort of person to seek other broader experiences outside work and fit a lot in a tight schedule? Otherwise she may end up having a restricted life perspective from formative years spent with peers all doing professional accountancy and regret that in later life. That would be one of my main concerns for DCs as developing adults.

Linking my mate @NotDonna, because her dd had experience. My ds1 is on a PwC Flying start which gets uni and also the ACA, work experience.

But I'm gonna go against the grain here of pp's and say I see the apprenticeship still as the crème de la crème. Many top students turn down top unis for it. I still see that as the case. Most of them are so prestigious, I don't think they've lost their appeal prestige or reputation, at all. The Deloitte one is so good. It's a meal ticket to so much. And fuck me, they are so hard to get. You're dd has done incredibly to get through all the selection process to get an offer. Well done her! She's thus a selected few to even get that far. Let's celebrate that.

Reading all the above posts, I disagree with nearly all, negative. I think they are fab. Best of both worlds, you get the qualification, the work experience, at such a young age it sets you for life, no one can ever take it away from you, once you get the ACA at such a young age no one even cares what your GCSE's were, no uni costs. What's not to like. You'd be in a cohort anyway of fellow trainees and share the experience of sitting exams, so you'd get the fellowship of having others experience what you are, like a uni course mate.

I'm all for it. Give her a big celebratory hug! Encourage her to go for it.

"The grades required for apprenticeships are usually lower than those for university ."

WTF

Me thinks not. Generally. Admittedly can't speak for other apprenticeships. But,
Often 3 x A* or 2 x A star, and an A.
Plus the 3000-4000+ applicants who are narrowed down to 200 for the 5 Uni's of PwC Flying start. ie very sought after, very hard to get on. Drop out rate is incredibly low.

100% go for the apprenticeship, they come out in a much better position than a recent graduate - with 3-4yea work experience, a degree and no massive student loan to pay off.

Apprenticeships are a fantastic option and I wish they were around when I was that age