Contextualisation - are we missing a trick?

[devilsadvocate77]

I do believe it is a good thing to have a system which allows students from disadvantaged backgrounds have a chance to gain a foothold on the educational ladder.

However, I was quite surprised to find out that some unis have a list where virtually all state schools (non-grammar) are included for contextualisation. Many of these schools I know for a fact are in leafy suburbs where the top sets are frequently kids who could have gone to grammar, super selective or private schools (wealthy parents).

Some of these schools, admittedly, have a wide range of abilities in their student pool. But to use the measure of how you compare with the rest of your school year cohort seems odd.

So if you are at a super selective grammar (or selective indie) and 'only' achieve 8/9s - as opposed to all 9s - you are downgraded as you have performed lower than your year/school cohort. But it seems unfair as these kids are all able and virtue of them having been selected on ability in the first place!! Why should the grammar lot not be considered for contextualisation?

You could argue that the top set in a leafy area comp will get more attention and good teaching than those in grammar who are expected to 'get on with it' to an extent.

Should add that some of these comps are very happy to provide very high UCAS predictions (not based on current level of working) as opposed to many grammar and high achieving independent schools who seek to provide very accurate predictions.

Would also be interested to know what contextualisation looks like in other countries when it comes to applying to uni?

What you seem to be saying is that too many people are getting contextual offers, given the list of schools you’ve looked at and some anecdata.

What about that makes you think the idea of contextual admissions isn’t then ALSO helping the most disadvantaged? As someone who’s spent the last week squinting at my institutions contextual admissions data…alright a couple might have got in who didn’t NEED the contextual offer, but for the vast, vast majority of kids it did what it was meant to

If that is the case, then that's really good and I'm pleased that the system is working.

Private school kids transferring to my sixth form for the benefit of a contextual offer from Bristol would possibly also get the benefit of having to teach themselves their A-level subject due to not having a teacher. I'm sure they'd be delighted by that.

Bristols list is made up of the bottom 50% of schools in terms of A level results. So leafy comps on there are usually not that happy about it 😂

And, as noble says, please feel free to join the local 6th form if you feel that strongly. You'll probably not have a maths or physics teacher though. Or MFL. Or Chemistry. But hey, Bristol will give you a 2 grades lower offer to make up for it.

I can imagine the one near me that didn’t even have a sixth form was quite non plussed!

@SabrinaThwaite 😂 wonder how that happened. Bristols list changes every year. And my v v non leafy, v high EFL/PP comp is not in it. Because our grades are too good 😇.
However lots of our students are truly contextual as they are poor. Or carers.

Yes, they ask where you do GCSEs as well don't they?

Yes, and this is part of the context.

Bristol don't care where you did your GCSES.

This has been discussed ad nauseam on here.

Other universities are available.

But many universities do look at where GCSEs were taken, so moving to state for A levels isn’t a great tactic for the majority of universities.

I don't know about others. Bristol have a very clear list, and says it looks at a level school only.

So manages to shoehorn private school kids into its state statistics.

1Uni. Just one. Don't like their policy, don't apply there 🤷‍♀️

Exactly this. Most universities use a combination of factors to prevent people knowingly (or accidentally) gaming the system. I wouldn’t let Bristol’s policy put my DC off applying if they wanted to go there.

Contextual offers are always going to be a blunt tool, but it was good to hear from @Bunnyannesummers that it can be effective.

Indeed from the HESA data Bristol back then was at just under 39%, so quite a significant change. In contrast Durham, perhaps unsurprisingly, has hardly moved the dial at all. 39.1% as quoted above as compared with….,,39.6% back then.

This 100%.

People tell us endlessly how essential it is that their kids go to grammars or independents because comps are so terrible and then complain when unis take them at their word.

Any system of contextual offers will always be imperfect unless you want unis to employ private investigators to dig into the life histories of everyone applying for one. But people who've done their best to secure their own kids an advantage over the rest don't really have moral grounds to complain about a small number of "the rest" occasionally getting an "unfair" advantage.

Bristol's list is based on the lower than expected for context going into higher education though. So whereas those top set kids may well be high achieving etc there are clearly a number not progressing into HE which places them in the bottom 40% of schools.

Many non- grammar state schools don’t set for subjects other than maths and English or the sets are so wide it could mean anything between grade 9 and 4…. not exactly grammar. Also try getting a top grade with a supply teacher or cover because they can’t get a permanent teacher or there are a myriad of SEN / behaviour issues with little support. Different world for many children that they’re taking their GCSEs in.

Bottom 40% of A level results, not progress. Our school doesn't qualify and we have v high PP.

Lots qualify for Bristol outreach so get contextual through those, or they live on the 13th floor in a 2 bed council flat with a family of 6. With no heating and a part time job (not for fun but to eat). That's what contextual does - gets those kids to Uni.

Always nice to see the privileged (I am one myself) think that levelling the playing field just slightly is sooo unfair to them.

Had a look at the Bristol list for the secondary schools in my area.

Most were the ones I would have expected - one or two surprises.

I don't think anyone has said its unfair to the privileged have they?

Parents saying it disadvantages children. Who attend private schools. Seems like they are unhappy with the system. Which does no such thing.

I think that’s pretty much the whole premise of the OPs thread.

Ah bugger, both the school where DD did her GCSEs and her current 6th form college are on the list. Shame that she couldn't stand Bristol when we visited!

Quite surprised actually, loads of kids at her school and college get really good results although the college accepts students with pretty low GCSEs for A levels - 5 at grade 4 or above so maybe that lowers their results.