Contextualisation - are we missing a trick?

[devilsadvocate77]

I do believe it is a good thing to have a system which allows students from disadvantaged backgrounds have a chance to gain a foothold on the educational ladder.

However, I was quite surprised to find out that some unis have a list where virtually all state schools (non-grammar) are included for contextualisation. Many of these schools I know for a fact are in leafy suburbs where the top sets are frequently kids who could have gone to grammar, super selective or private schools (wealthy parents).

Some of these schools, admittedly, have a wide range of abilities in their student pool. But to use the measure of how you compare with the rest of your school year cohort seems odd.

So if you are at a super selective grammar (or selective indie) and 'only' achieve 8/9s - as opposed to all 9s - you are downgraded as you have performed lower than your year/school cohort. But it seems unfair as these kids are all able and virtue of them having been selected on ability in the first place!! Why should the grammar lot not be considered for contextualisation?

You could argue that the top set in a leafy area comp will get more attention and good teaching than those in grammar who are expected to 'get on with it' to an extent.

Should add that some of these comps are very happy to provide very high UCAS predictions (not based on current level of working) as opposed to many grammar and high achieving independent schools who seek to provide very accurate predictions.

Would also be interested to know what contextualisation looks like in other countries when it comes to applying to uni?

@Anjelika I'm a bit concerned where you say you ASSUME the standard A star A star A offer will be reduced to ABB. I'd be astonished if it was reduced that much, maybe to AAA, but unless you have this from the horses mouth please don't get hopes up.

@noblegiraffe in our case Bristol is not on the list of fave options but just an observation and I do think it's a very weird system, but then so is applying with predicted grades!

Even though Bristol has contextual offers the truth is that many of the students exceed the grades required
DD’s best friend received a contextual offer
for Economics A star A B and received Astar A star A

So? She would still have got in with lower grades. Our local state is on Bristols list despite being in a rather posh area. Sadly it didn't do the course that dd wanted to do. Her friend got an ABB offer for philosophy with economics.

A ridiculously general sniping post about what turns out to be a single University's policy on contextual offers. As Bristol historically has a very high intake of privately educated students and is an expensive city is it really so unjust that they are trying to become more appealing to state school applicants?

It really grates with me that we have to put up with people sneering about the state system, crowing about the advantages of grammar and independent schools for their children to thrive educationally and then as soon as they see an instance where they think the state school oiks are getting a leg up it’s time for a disgruntled post about educational injustice!

I think it's that a lot of schools on their list don't look as though they would need contextual offers. Unless you think ALL state schools should get contextual offers from Bristol?

Yes precisely this. It's a VERY long list. And in our very leafy, and expensive area - we are privileged in that sense - seems most schools are on it.

'don't look as though' isn't very scientific. Bristol do explain their methodology.

Most schools local to me are not on the Bristol list.

Should add that some of these comps are very happy to provide very high UCAS predictions (not based on current level of working) as opposed to many grammar and high achieving independent schools who seek to provide very accurate predictions.

During the pandemic when kids grades were teacher assessment grades, it was top private schools who had much bigger jumps in top grades rather than comprehensives so I would argue the opposite and say top private schools are more likely to over predict.

If your child is at an independent then they can avoid Bristol if you really believe that private school kids are being discriminated against.

I think a large part this happened is because during Covid, many parents - especially those who are 'professionals' - were able to work from home (as opposed to those in perhaps lower skilled jobs or in construction/NHS etc) and possibly 'helped' their kids when it came to revision, testing and coursework. So what the teachers saw was something that was actually there, evidence. Of course, it is unfair as most state schools probably struggled a lot more to keep schooling/online teaching going and with larger classes, less room to devote to making sure the 'evidence' is there.

I think these are two very different things though. Our indie aims for 70-80% accuracy in predictions. Compare that nationally with 85% of predictions being INCORRECT (mostly being too generous), i.e. 15% accuracy!!

As I say based on a small number so not conclusive at all.

Do have a look at that Bristol list. I think most comps - including highly sought after ones in our area - are on it.

The 2023 and 2024 entry cycle lists of schools for Bristol had quite a few anomalies on it. The 2025 list has been heavily trimmed, although it appears that Bristol will also consider students in a low POLAR4 quintile postcode independent if any other factors.

Most university contextual offers are based on a combination of factors, rather than just ticking a single box; Bristol is a bit of an outlier in the way it makes contextual offers.

Bristol have been running the scheme for a number of years so obviously feel it’s warranted.

Looking at an old news report in 2019(so i haven’t verified the facts) it stated that nearly 40% of Bristol University student intake came from private education in the previous year. That shows they were grossly over represented given they make up 7% of all children in education. So if Bristol chose to do something about that then good for them.

If you really feel your children are having being disadvantaged by the children in the ‘leafy state schools’ you are surrounded by then I suggest you move your children there.

I think it would be good if more Universities provide more contextual offers based on educational experience (proportion of people progressing to University from the school etc) but then there would just be more sneering that those state school children didn’t deserve their places.

These are predictions for UCAS . They aren't meant to be the measure of 'accuracy of prediction' which isn't a measure of school success anyway and data is not publicly available. UCAS themselves encourage generosity. It is, by the by, easier to be 'accurate' if your intake's ability profile runs from A star - A.

Schools are no longer asked to provide 'accurate' predictions to exam boards, for example.

You could be talking about my daughter. She got a contextual offer at Bristol. She was going from a top independent school and living in a 6-bed house in the £800k+ bracket. Funnily enough I've been reading up on it today as I didn't understand the mechanics of it. Apparently we live in a postcode that has a very low number of children entering high education (I think). Which makes sense as we have the best house in the best road of a very average area, bordering on some pretty poor areas.

Hi, @Anjelika

I will address the OP later. But I want to note that AAB would be a very low contextual offer for a highly competitive degree programme - a drop of 3 grades.

Usually contextual offers from highly demanding programmes are 1 or occasionally 2 grades down. As a former admissions tutor in such a programme, I would be concerned that someone 3 grades off did not have the necessary background, regardless of circumstances

That's because I'm not a scientist 🤔

Posters on Mumsnet do often seem to demand scientific evidence to support even the most passing anecdote.

There were some private schools whose CAGs were so ridiculously out of step with their normal grade profile that it was blatantly obvious that some grade bumping had gone on.

We are always told that private school parents are working all hours to afford private education so the idea that they suddenly had loads of time during Covid to coach their kids seems a bit of a reach.

So @titchy got there before me, @Anjelika .

It is impossible to make meaningful comparisons with European countries for the reasons @Piggywaspushed has explained. The so-called holistic decision making process used by American universities is terribly vulnerable to abuse, and contextual admissions have been largely outlawed there.

For the rest, I will merely say that no applicant is ‘downgraded’, OP. That was an inaccurate choice of word at best.

Surely predicted grades for UCAS are based on students having a good day on exam day? Hence it’s recommended that students apply for an aspirational choice, a couple of realistic ones, one where they could get in if they slipped a grade, plus an insurance?

Do have a look at that Bristol list. I think most comps - including highly sought after ones in our area - are on it.

The 2025 Bristol list covers around 1600 schools in England and Wales. There are around 3600 comprehensive secondaries and sixth form colleges in England and Wales. So it can’t contain ‘most comps’. It certainly doesn’t include any leafy comps on my area.

Hopes not up at all, hence me not even knowing what the contextual offer would look like! I was just amazed his college was on their list but can see from this thread that it's far from unusual. DS certainly not banking on Bristol!

Just looked at the Bristol list armed with local knowledge about the 4 schools/6th form comps in my area, Two of those places hoover up the students with the best GCSEs, have good University outcomes, Oxbridge rates etc. Two don't. The two that don't are on the Bristol list, but honestly there's no socio-economic or opportunity difference between the four places, it's just that everybody is "streamed" at 16. Those going into the lower stream get different offers from Bristol? Good luck to them, but seems a bit weird.

honestly there's no socio-economic or opportunity difference between the four places

Are you sure that the schools that hoover up the students with the best results don’t also hoover up the best teachers?

Schools with more difficult intakes definitely have greater issues with recruitment than easy schools.

I'm not really sure why this is an issue anyway. Bristol has dropped in the rankings and is no longer viewed as being a highly regarded as it was say 20 years ago. It has also had a lot of negative press for student satisfaction/safeguarding etc. Plus it has accommodation issues.

Sounds like Bristol had to do something to encourage state school applications https://www.bristol247.com/student/features-student/privatestate-school-divide-at-bristol-uni/

I hope there’s not a sniffy attitude from the private school pupils (and their parents) towards the state school pupils that they are less worthy to be there because of the policy.

Re what happens in other countries, here’s just one example. In Switzerland what happens is that anyone who passes matura (school leaving exam, a bit like IB but about 10 subjects rather than 6) can go to uni, with whatever grades. Numbers are then winnowed down after end-of-year exams in each year - if you don’t get high enough marks, you’re out. For some courses this can be a third of the intake.

Furthermore you have to be at grammar school to do matura, so university access is limited to about 20% of the population to start with (although there are many more pathways for the less academically inclined than there are here).