Is sociology, business & politics A level combo a bad idea?

[LatinSisters]

A mum from school yesterday was appalled that my DD is wanting to study sociology, business and politics at A levels, saying that none of them are academic and she won’t get a place at a ‘good’ uni. DD has no clue about a career or a degree. She’s not taking any of those subjects at gcse so it’s a risk but this mum wasn’t getting at that. DD is definitely more interested in humanities than sciences. She works very hard and is likely to get the following at GCSE
maths 7, English x2 at 7, 3 sciences at 6, history 6, PE 7, Food 7/8. (Total of 9 subjects at 6/7 type results).
She thinks she’ll really enjoy sociology and politics, and that business could be interesting. BUT are these a ‘bad’ combination?

good on her

@GreatNorthBun really interesting that LSE prefers sociology to business studies. But disappointed by art and design being non preferred- it requires a lot of effort to get an A in Art.

Oh I have. I just think it’s important to think of beyond “going to university” as a goal

So in respect of RG unis Business is the less strong choice unless Business is likely to be what your DC goes on to study.

I think the discussion on studying subjects not studied at GCSE being risky isn’t really convincing. Of the 3 subjects under discussion, Business is the only one likely to have been widely available at GCSE.

As regards people thinking doing humanities and no science or maths is no longer a way forward, I would say that if students choose subjects that they are not interested in or find difficult that’s likely not to be a good move. Plus humanities are a fine foundation for all sorts of things.

Just a thought OP. Someone mentioned NEAs upthread. If your DD is hard working, she might want to consider whether subjects have coursework or not and include one that does. If she has chosen the business A level rather than applied business, she has three non coursework subjects there. Eng Lit and history both have NEA components - which teach really helpful skills sadly vanishing from schools , such as research, independent study, responding to feedback and careful editing.

Would the people saying Sociology and Politics overlap too much sat the same about Maths and Physics? Lots of people do similar subjects with an overlap in skills and/or content. When we looked DC was advised that students doing science x2 plus an essay subject didn't acquire the same essay writing skills as those doing two or three essay subjects and so found it harder to get top grades in the essay subject. Sociology, Politics (doesn't exist as GCSE unless you count Citizenship) and Business or Psychology seem fine as a combination. Maybe consider English and core maths if available.

Sociology is also entrenched in history. You cannot fully understand sociological perspectives or societal changes without having a contextual understanding of what was happening at the time. It is far more interesting and complex than lots of people think. In my opinion anyway!

@Piggywaspushed No objection to any of those subjects as individual subjects. Perfectly good subjects. However for many DC putting in History or Eng Lit is better advice. It’s not that good courses are ruled out but I feel looking at Economics at Brum is a mistake and some unis will look at subjects or my DD could have done Economics with Astar AA. Obviously her A level subjects would not be competitive even if one was Business. I think facilitating subjects still exist for competitive courses. As many aren’t competitive, DC get a wider choice. When all things are equal, slotting in a subject like Eng Lit or History is the best route but not the only route.

You make a good point here - I did my a levels before the new gcse grading system. I was viewing 6/7’s as “the middle third” and comparing them to c’s, my apologies for not properly understanding.

I do stand by my point of letting her choose, I do believe choosing a levels is part of learning responsibility and self determination. When I went to college I had studied NONE of the a levels and did sociology, psychology, philosophy and business studies just because they appealed and I wanted a change. I hated business and dropped it but went on to university, I now have several degrees at post grad level so I’m an example of it being a risk that paid off. Hope my experience helps.

Regarding subjects with NEA coursework. DC did History and English and the coursework was a lot of work. The curriculum for history is rather full and they were slogging through it after the coursework was completed. The English was much better paced.

At his sixth form the EPQ was compulsory and that involved a lot of research and independent study.

His other subject was a MFL - they call the project ‘coursework’ but it basically is a smaller piece of coursework on which they have to answer questions after presenting an account of it in the language.

With both EPQ and MFL project originality and choosing something that interests you is the way to pick up good marks because nothing speaks better than enthusiasm

Yes, agreed. Sociologists like to argue that everything is actually a branch of sociology!

My DS is actaully now doing a history degree (long story) and says he knows way more than most of his peers because he learnt it in sociology A level. He uses loads of his sociology knowledge in the modules he studies and got a summer internship because of his interest in a Birmingham based sociology icon.

@Summertimer Busimess is not widely available at gcse. It’s unusual around here. It’s a vocational A level and is easy enough to study if you are interested. It’s not very academic but certainly DD found it useful in life. Business A level is applying knowledge to business situations.

It’s available hereabouts at GCSE and A Level more or less everywhere. Sociology and Politics aren’t at GCSE though.

It’s a popular A Level here but definitely not a RG uni favourite. DH and I are respectively academic and academic support staff.

To clarify, there are two different business A levels. One is routinely called A level business but is a CNAT (equivalent but more vocational with lots of coursework and resit opportunities) and there is also a standard 'proper' A level. All exams, no coursework. They tend to be taught very differently.

I think GCSE business is now the most popular non core GCSE. Or certainly up at the top.

I think some people seem to be interpreting this as a sort of moral judgment on the worth of a subject, or even on the person taking it as a transitive property. I think others are just saying keep your options open if you can.

It might be worth thinking more pragmatically about this. You have 100 open doors and, say, 80 possible subjects. You can choose 3 subjects. Each combination you choose closes some doors. Some close many doors; some close almost none.

If you know which door/s you want to walk through, choose a combination that targets those and don't worry about the others closing. If you don't know yet, choose a combination that keeps as many doors open as possible.

I don’t see how you could have read the thread when zero subjects mentioned are arts.

sorry @Piggywaspushed I’m now asking about English Lit. I’ve never read any Shakespeare and as you can no doubt tell from my posts, English isn’t my forte! Her favoured school does the following for Eng Lit …

1. Measure for Measure, by William Shakespeare:
2. Paradise Lost books 9 and 10, by John Milton and compare with the Duchess of Malfi, by John Webster
3. Students’ coursework - will complete an essay on A Streetcar Named Desire (Tennessee Williams) compared with The Bell Jar (Sylvia Plath) and write an essay on The Not Dead (Simon Armitage).
4. The Bloody Chamber, by Angela Carter and The Picture of Dorian Gray, by Oscar Wilde

She won’t have a clue if these are interesting until she’s reading them. She enjoyed GCSE Macbeth, inspector calls, Of Mice & Men, not sure what poetry they’re doing tbh.

The Business A levels offered at the schools she’s looking at are not with coursework, just exams. Interestingly the NEA is the main reason her history teacher believes a 7 or above is essential for the A level. When I say she put DD off, it’s because she said that the highest grade would likely be a C. DD is not keen on achieving Cs. I’ve asked her to have a similar discussion with her English teacher as maybe her definition of being capable also equates to not higher than a C.

Some of those texts are great (do you know what board that is? It doesn't seem to be AQA which is the biggest provider). Paradise Lost will be very challenging but the Duchess of Malfi is fabulous, especially if a decent production hoves into view! The coursework texts are epic and all students really relish The Bloody Chamber. The Shakespeare choice wouldn't be for me but should be fine.

If she likes feminism that's quite a feminist selection.

I think The Not Dead is the Simon Armitage monologues based on a documentary and interviews he did with Gulf veterans. If so, if she does AQA GCSE Lit, she will know already the poem Remains.

History teachers have been stung a few times by coursework moderation so there may be a backstory there. They have a tendency to discourage anyone they don't view as the brightest and best, in my experience. It's a fairly notorious subject for very able students being a bit disappointed with outcomes. All that may explain the teacher's caution.

Caution might also be based on predicted 6/7 results at gcse. There’s a high chance of a C in everything but not if she really gels with the subject. I think some of those texts are challenging and we did Chaucer for O level!

Business is still vocational regardless of how it’s examined.

You might find it interesting to browse unis using the term "social science(s)". Though of course she may not want to stick with them for uni.

There's a lot of confusing/contradictory info on this thread.

I suspect it's partly because social science subjects are not offered much for gcse so seen as new fangled when as one poster said they have been taught at a level/uni for a long time.

Suggest when looking to start a subject new-to-you it's helpful to try to understand what that particular subject is actually like to study eg how much is essays and reading, is there maths, what are the exams like rather than assuming/guessing.

@autumnleavesrcoming info varies according to views. There’s not one harmonious view.

I did sociology and politics, and have been a solicitor for 25 years. Interesting subjects, hope she enjoys them as much as I did.

@dawnio1977 you did a Law degree with sociology & politics A levels? Was that alongside history or English lit A level?

ahhh piggy being stung at moderation would make sense.

Yes an LLB. Alongside Eng Lit. It was a long time ago so don't know if it's different now.

The spinning the wheel is linked to what I said – “I don’t like any of my GCSEs so I’ll pick three totally new subjects and I might like them” – I don't think your DD thinks this and if new subjects are researched and a student genuinely is interested then that’s not an issue. But some students, as I say, seem to think that disliking all GCSE subjects is a good foundation for three untried subjects at A level. I really think that if you don’t enjoy Eng lit or history or any other humanity or any science or maths or any creative or any MFL enough to take it forward to A level, then maybe A levels as such are not best for you. Just picking three subjects never studied before is not suddenly going to make you enjoy writing essays or researching or doing text analysis or analysing maths. That’s all. No one knows your DD or what she has done prep-wise so my comments certainly don’t apply specifically to her.

Wrt Eng lit and is a 7 “enough” – again, if her top grade is likely to be a 7 (from what you say) then she is looking at a 7 as needing to be “enough” for any (humanity – but her choices are all broadly humanities/soc sci) subject tbh. Sociology and her other choices will use the skills from her GCSEs. A 7 in Eng lit is fine for A level; it’s also a good starting point for politics A level and sociology A level.

I agree btw that of the suggested A levels, only business is commonly studied at GCSE. But I still think my reservation – with caveats as noted – stands.

BTW I did a previously untouched subject as half of my joint honours at uni – looking back, it was a total waste of time as a subject (tho it is often quoted as being so useful – maybe it was badly taught at my uni (actually no maybe about it)). As it turned out, I would have been much better off doing a more obvious other choice. But then I don’t recall doing any research really – more just “oh that sounds interesting”. Hence advising due diligence as indeed others do here.

Great posts as ever from @Piggywaspushed (agree re maths A level not being essential for a lot of economics courses but still think it's a good idea have - as do you!) @PerpetualOptimist and @GreatNorthBun.

How does she do Of Mice and Men for GCSE btw? Or is it IGCSE? If so check about the transition to A level as the IGCSE spec is fairly different from GCSE I believe. However probably fine and not an issue. Fully endorse piggy's comments about the proposed texts - not my fave Shakespeare but fine, and Duchess of Malfi is excellent and well worth seeing on stage.

Could she read some of those texts now? Dorian Gray is pretty accessible as is the Angela Carter.