Is sociology, business & politics A level combo a bad idea?

[LatinSisters]

A mum from school yesterday was appalled that my DD is wanting to study sociology, business and politics at A levels, saying that none of them are academic and she won’t get a place at a ‘good’ uni. DD has no clue about a career or a degree. She’s not taking any of those subjects at gcse so it’s a risk but this mum wasn’t getting at that. DD is definitely more interested in humanities than sciences. She works very hard and is likely to get the following at GCSE
maths 7, English x2 at 7, 3 sciences at 6, history 6, PE 7, Food 7/8. (Total of 9 subjects at 6/7 type results).
She thinks she’ll really enjoy sociology and politics, and that business could be interesting. BUT are these a ‘bad’ combination?

Agree. dS took economics convinced he would like it. He hated it. Three new subjects is risky

Tizer is referencing U of Cambridge's pdf 'The subject matters' which can be downloaded from the page linked below (scroll to the bottom). Read the wording carefully, as people often interpret and paraphrase it incorrectly. Hope that helps.

www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/events/subjectmatters

Thank you @PerpetualOptimist the booklet does say ‘we’ quite a lot so they are definitely referring to themselves in the main. I think their advice is sound esp if a student isn’t sure what they wish to study.

Also where does it say on ANY university entry requirement (bar Cambridge) that they look for “best A level subject combinations.” and taking 2 of the recommended subjects works well?**

It doesn't. Bc it's not the case. LSE iirc has a list of subjects it likes for economics. Otherwise pretty much not. Nothing wrong in uni terms with her combo (as long as she knows she won't do a degree in maths, history etc)

I would warn you and dd tho @LatinSisters that meeting the minimum requirement for a certain degree does not mean you get an offer. Especially a) at popular unis and b) for popular courses (like Brum and econ). I would imagine not a very large number of students got into brum for econ without maths or at least econ. Your dd is not planning to apply for it! but the caveat applies to other degrees too.

I can also confirm that the catch up maths classes they make those with maths up to GCSE do are dry dry dry as a board.

I’ve probably got a different view to most others but…just let her choose!

Respectfully to your dd but she doesn’t sound the most academic with what she’s been forced to do (by school) so let her try some new things that will pique her interest. If school have even said they don’t advise some of the subjects she’s done like history then maybe let her discover what she loves and learn some new skills! She might do well and decide to do one at university or she might decide that she’s not that academic and university isn’t for her.

i don’t think so but I think 3 entirely new subjects definitely is

@NotARealWookiie She’s not very academic as looking at a mix of 6/7’s. It’s early days but she works hard to get those kind of grades. School want 7/8’s to carry on with existing subjects. She may well get a 7 in history (definitely in the two English, in maths, PE and Food. The 6’s are likely in triple science & history) but her teacher has put her off history - she’s now wondering about English Lit. She’s a new teacher and has come on so much & this teacher has said she’d be capable. I’m less convinced.
@Piggywaspushed do you teach English Lit A level? If so would a 7 be enough? She’d want higher than a C I’m afraid! 🙄

I’ve almost completed my MBA after going back to uni part time as an adult (I’ve previously studied sciences to PhD level and did all sciences at A level as a medicine prospect). I have also previously worked in admissions at a RG uni.

I do think it is correct to question those three A levels in combination - even though I’ve loved the content that each has woven into my career and especially my MBA. My dissertation is essentially on sociology and economics, and I work in politics. 18 year old me probably wouldn’t have predicted that, but I think the life experience I’ve had is what really brings those subjects alive for me (through, at this stage, independent study). My reason for questioning is about range/breadth - those subjects together are likely to drive similar skills. They are all interesting in their own right but they might narrow choice quite significantly. So I would only take them if she’s dead set on one of them at uni, which she can’t be at this stage. The facilitating subjects guide is a ‘thing’ and the unis do like to see them, but I think in this heavily marketised era the choices above won’t stop someone going to uni, might just narrow choice.

The point about difficulty level is valid too - my undergraduate chemistry degree was so much harder than any of the content for my MBA. I should hopefully walk out with a distinction, but I’ve not had to do work that hard for it academically - but I’ve had to put in a huge amount of time. I think the same is true of these subjects at all levels including pre-university.

I’m not sure how mathsy economics A level is, but to take it to degree level then maths is almost certainly required (even with a PhD in physics & chemistry I struggle with some economics research papers as the maths is hard). Maths would also be good for things like psychology (but I get your point about it being beyond her natural skill set - would AS be an option?).

from the thread I’m a bit dubious about business studies as a new offering for the school - it’s a gamble. For me business at A level is a bit of a weird one, supplements other subjects for those interested in accounting and finance, or economics, and I’d probably not want to be in the first cohort for any subject anywhere.

what about having a chat with her form tutor or careers guidance, with your DD obviously there too?

3 entirely new subjects strikes me as a student who hasn’t really flourished in any of her GCSEs and so is spinning the wheel for all three at a levels.

Too risky

@hillroad they don’t have a careers person. Her form tutor is an art teacher & has never taught her so won’t have a clue about sociology (not offered) nor business or politics. She’s not staying at her current school as they don’t offer sociology, so the fact they now offer business isn’t relevant. Schools she’s looking at have offered these subjects for a while. I’m not understanding your ‘spinning the wheel’ comment. If she’s interested in certain subjects then why not study them. My friend’s DD is studying a degree in sociology after NEVER studying it at A level or GCSE and loves it. As long as she does her research, which she is then I’m not sure why doung new subjects is such a bad idea.

I did A Level sociology as a back up (because I dropped A Level German last minute) and honestly loved it, got the highest grade possible and still got into a Russell Group uni. I also did politics and there were a lot of serious people in that class! Meant when I did politics at uni I was a step ahead too.

I don’t think there should be too much concern about all new subjects, A Level courses are geared to accommodate this I think. Also sociology and politics compliment each other.

there is no teacher who knows your dad well enough that you could pick their brains about your DD doing three subjects she’s never done before ?

more about your DD’s capability for taking in three entirely new subjects rather than the subjects per se

Our dd did A level sociology,psychology and business studies.
She got 3xA* and is now studying at a top London university.
They were all new subjects for A level

Not any more but I did up to three years ago - a 7 is fine. We take students with 5s and above.

Don't let MN sway you into thinking your DD is not able enough for A level study. She looks set to receive about 8 grades at 6 or above and plenty of 7s. That's pretty good! And ,as you said, she is diligent - which adds a lot of value. The main thing is to like reading and be OK with poetry, Shakespeare and possibly Victorian literature.

You are correct about Economics at Birmingham OP, DS did not do Maths A level and got an offer from them. They said at Open Day that additional top up maths classes were offered for those who didn't do Maths A level, covering the relevant content.

Liberal Arts might be worth a look.

It’s interesting what we now view as being a ‘non academic’ kid. When I went to school, getting As in five subjects (including maths & English) and Bs in the other four wouldn’t have been viewed as a ‘non academic’ kid.

A few things to clear up

Huge numbers of universities do not require A level maths to study economics. Thsi is a MN widely shared myth. It is true some do - but it's not all, or not even many -it tends to be the most selecting, elite universities (COWI, Bath and a few others and these sometimes require FM too) and this is not an aim of this DC. This is not me suggesting that it would not be useful to have maths at A level (or a very high GCSE grade) to succeed in a BSc in economics. But other less mathsy degrees exist (insert debate about mathematicisation of the academic study of economics in the neoliberal era). Maths is becoming a very popular A level so many students do have it but most unis could not insist on maths for non maths degrees from a recruitment point of view. Lots of students who do economics A level don't do maths. I think it's about 50% who do. Economics is also commonly done with humanities and soc sci A levels, such as politics, history, sociology, geography, business, law.

Business and sociology/ politics do not use the same skills particularly. Sociology and politics do. Business is a horse of a different colour.

Many decent unis will simply look at grades achieved and really not pull apart the subjects - other than for specific entry requirements. As I said, one of my students got a Durham offer with sociology, business CNAT and geography. Another I taught got three RG offers with sociology, maths and the now discontinued finance A level equivalent. Non MN approved qualifications don't seem to have held them back! The HSPS student did sociology, politics and classical civilisation.

There are huge numbers of degrees available to study. Very few are closed off by these options.

I think we need to explore why people voice concern at 'three new subjects'. It could be that students' choices can be swayed by a great (but unrepresentative) example lesson at a 6th form or college day, or influenced by their peers' (possibly erroneous) views, or students succumbed to (misguided) parental pressure. I think doing some due diligence, as I described in a previous post, could help reduce those risks.

When my DC explored new subjects a bit further, they variously found Politics had quite a bit on the constitution, didn't have an NEA and the exams were very essay heavy; Business was about case studies and the workings of a company and less about the external or about policy; these things either push the right buttons or do not and best to find that out in Y11 than in the early weeks of Y12.

Why does sociology raise a question please? This is the one she’s most interested in.

why? i know you say she “likes the grey area” but has she actually read sociology books, researched ?

They all seem very soft and will limit her. If she doesn’t know what she wants to do apart from “go to university” it means she will have less chance of getting into lots of courses. She can stick with arts but history would be far more respected as one of her options. Pick one “soft” one and 2 harder hitters.

it’s because of the existence now of 8 and 9s, which is regarded as achieved by those “academic”

Just idly wondering whether people think the teachers who teach these 'soft' subjects are also soft of intellect compared to teachers of the approved subjects.