Philosophy and Ethics A level - Law (oxbridge)

[remotecontrolowls]

DS is in year 11 and thinking about A levels.

Current thinking is that he would like to do law, and plans to apply for Cambridge, a couple of London ones and others.

He's narrowed his choices down to
English
History
Philosophy and Ethics
Maths
Chemistry

He plans to select 2 from the top 3 and one from the bottom 2.

He really wants to do P&E but my reservation is whether law departments would rather more straightforward academic subjects.

I know nothing about this so am only basing this on a lawyer friend of mine wrinkling her nose up at it.

Yes 4 ASs was a standard lower 6th amount when exams were geared that way with the expectation most would drop to 3 for upper 6th.

I quite liked the system at the time for breadth but did mean high stakes testing 3 years in a row.

3 A levels would now be the equivalent of that although yes some do 4, particularly those that do further maths. Apart from further maths though students are often discouraged from doing this.

I wonder what it will look like in another generation!

OK now he's throwing economics into the mix.

Maths is a definite

He is thinking
Maths
Economics
Philosophy

I am veering him towards

Maths
English or History
Economics or philosophy

This had been very much guided by the Cambridge link you posted.

He's not dead set on law so wants to keep his options open.

Does he really want to do maths? I only say that because so many boys at my twins' school were pushed by clients to do maths that the school had to issue a warning not to unless you were very good at it as plenty were getting poor grades in it but would have had higher grades in another. I know that maths has a lot of A stars from the brilliant people who do it but the A level is a huge step up from GCSE and it is not a natural bed fellow with history whereas English literature might be. Eg one of my lawyer sons did History, geography and economics.
If he may not be doing law at university then what subject he might do there should now play centre stage to the A level choices I suppose

He is predicted a 9 in maths, enjoys jt and is good at it. Most of his school take it at A level.

But he doesn't want to go down a science route at university.

Maths seems compulsory for economics, but economics doesn't

A level maths isn't too hard main thing is to just learn in a logical order. Don't try to take big steps but work from what you already know. If you can do the basics well which a predicted grade 9 suggests he can I'm sure A level will be perfectly okay to do. Of course it's important to note some people just really struggle with math so take this with a pinch of salt but if he is reasonably good will likely find it one of the easier subjects he chooses

I am certainly not a maths expert. At my sons' school you did not have to take maths to do economics A level but if you want to do economics at university at anywhere decent I think you do need maths A levels.

Yes that's what I meant.

So maths would keep economics an option.

I wouldn’t veer him. Either of these lists would be fine and perfectly well regarded for Oxbridge law (or indeed for PPE, Economics or other humanities). Best he chooses what he will enjoy and will do best in.

As a pp says it’s things like Photography or Theatre Studies that might get sniffed at by conservative Oxbridge tutors.

Thank you, that's reassuring

One word of caution; check whether the course is "Philosophy, Ethics, and Religion" (officially Religious Studies, offered by all exam boards) or "Philosophy" (offered only by AQA). The latter has fewer A*/As awarded than other essay subjects.

DD had history, maths & English language A levels for her Oxford degree in PPE. Don't under estimate the leap between A level maths and uni level maths. It will undoubtedly help to have that one in the mix.

It's Philosophy & Ethics rather than straight philosophy

Fair enough, although the names are very confusing. One of the four modules in "straight philosophy" is... ethics.

I wouldn't do chemistry without other sciences but maths plus any of the others is just fine

It annoys me when people call Religious Studies Philosophy and Ethics. It seems pretentious somehow.

While I agree, the Religious Studies spec is only roughly 60% about, umm, religious studies, so that name is also confusing.

DH isn’t keen on Economics as an A Level. Whilst there is no doubting it’s hard work, his personal feeling is that the content is fairly, tedious and mathsy with little social science content. DH is law prof at Oxbridge

Yes, maybe. But it's what it is officially called.

Law, BA (Hons) | Undergraduate Study (cam.ac.uk)

I think philosophy is very important for law. When I did philosophy at Oxbridge the philosophy of law paper was quite basic and repeated much of philosophy A level, so the A level was very useful for it. I'm sure the curriculum has changed in the intervening years, but a grounding in the ideas our legal system is based on is always useful.

@remotecontrolowls For top Law degrees I suggest maths, History and Economics is fine. Or swap in Philosophy and Ehics for Economics, but keep History. History keeps many more doors open. Thats why Cambridge have it in their 1st division list if dc are a bit unsure of what they went to do. Maths is there too. It’s better to do 2 of these subjects for PPE, Law and Economics at a competitive uni. Then add in what you like as a third. Essay subject or economics. These are subjects that help the others by being useful for specific uni courses. He just needs to think what he might prefer as he’s going for 3 competitive areas of study so needs the best combination. I am not sure how lack of FM might affect some economic degree applications. He needs to investigate this.

Yes I think this too.

There are a couple of colleges that require further maths but not all.

We'll see how he feels after open evening

My Scottish DC did advanced highers (A level equivalent) in three non traditional subjects and graduated from Oxford a couple of years ago.

He also had six highers (like AS levels) under his belt too though.

His subjects were:
Modern studies (a mix of politics and sociology)
Religious, moral and philosophical studies
Music.

I think Scottish qualifications are different so English students should take notice of what the elite unis say if they want a place there. Obviously there are exceptions. DDs friend read Law at Oxford with South African qualifications and a degree from there already. However the best advice is from the unis themselves and I don’t see what’s wrong with the Cambridge advice if you want that level of uni.

And the OPs DS has these subjects on his list. He doesn’t have music or modern studies.