Philosophy and Ethics A level - Law (oxbridge)

[remotecontrolowls]

DS is in year 11 and thinking about A levels.

Current thinking is that he would like to do law, and plans to apply for Cambridge, a couple of London ones and others.

He's narrowed his choices down to
English
History
Philosophy and Ethics
Maths
Chemistry

He plans to select 2 from the top 3 and one from the bottom 2.

He really wants to do P&E but my reservation is whether law departments would rather more straightforward academic subjects.

I know nothing about this so am only basing this on a lawyer friend of mine wrinkling her nose up at it.

Funnily enough my dcs bf has just got into Oxford to do Law and did RS a level!
They did
English lit
RS
Politics

And an epq

Perfect.

This is all the assurance I needed.

Thank you.

He did the LNAT too obvs

Dd is also off to do Law not at Oxford though! And did RS.

It actually goes really well for Law.

Philosophy and ethics is concerned with arguments, logic etc. One of the popular courses at Oxford when I went was PPE which lots did prior law conversion.

It makes perfect sense to me, and he loves it as a subject (and I think he will love law)

But my friend made some passing comment like (as long as he does good subjects and not something like RE) but I'm assuming she's just talking out of her arse.

It's a very solidly academic A-level which requires you to read widely, summarise conflicting arguments, and draw a conclusion. Perfect skills for law, and universities know that.

It does include studying one religion in some detail, and the official name is still "Religious Studies" but that's misleading as 2/3 of it is, well, Philosophy and Ethics.

History is always a solid choice for law and so is maths. Not sure about chemistry on its own.RE/P&E is great with these.

You've had great answers but I'd go for

History
P&E
Maths

I'd do those 3 too if picking but obviously it's what he's enjoying too.

And yes your friends talking out of her arse!

My duaghter doesn't know what she'd like to do at uni yet sowere having real trouble narrowing down A level choices!

Lawyer here. No issue with philosophy and ethics. Do whatever subjects they enjoy and are good at. Chemistry isn’t an obvious one, but could be useful eg if you wanted to get into IP. Many lawyers advise against a law degree, but I wouldn’t go that far.

Yes I vaguely remember that advice when I worked in 6th form that many advised to do a straight degree and then a law conversion but I can't remember the reasoning...!

Another lawyer here, philosophy is definitely a good choice. I think they look a great set of choices and would encourage him to pick his favourites as he'll get most out of those and is most likely to do well in them.

https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/courses/law-ba-hons Cambridge give a very helpful explanation of what successful applicants have studied (so much more useful than just saying "no required subjects")- you can see philosophy is listed as a subject commonly taken.

On the law degree v other subjects, I'd just be sure he knows there are other ways to be come a lawyer so he can make the choice. Law is a great degree if you find the idea of studying it for 3 years appealing, but it's not the only way to do it. IME barristers tend to have studied law more than solicitors. In City firms it's about 50-50.

I did Math, Chem, Bio and got A* in all of them this year.

I'd say Math is the easier out of Math and Chem. Unless your Son really struggles with or dislikes Math I'd choose that, Chemistry requires some Math aswell but not much you couldn't learn easily enough/ at a gcse level

From the other 3 subjects first check that the Unis he wants to apply to are okay with taking the ones he chooses and if so then just choose the ones he prefers - it's easier to do well in a subject you don't fully hate!

If he is good at maths definitely do that rather than chem on its own.

@MingingTiles DD is a barrister and few of her friends studied law as a first degree. It’s going to cost more not doing law but any high quality first degree can be great. There’s more to law than a law degree. It also depends what area of law you want. DD has MFL degree.

I’ve been a lawyer for 25 years and I’ve definitely found it to be more common among barristers to have studied law. But that doesn’t mean they all do of course!

As others say, Chemistry without Maths or another supporting science is unusual; Maths is also a notable step up at A level.

I know a recent Oxford law grad who has three humanity A levels (inc Phil & Ethics) and who did toy with the idea of taking A level Maths but, instead, took Core Maths (equivalent to an AS) to keep developing their quantitative skills whilst maximising likely A level performance because of their strength on the humanities side. Perhaps that could be an option to consider?

It sounds like your lawyer friend would have benefitted from taking Phil & Ethics at A level; they might perhaps have been less likely to spout unsubstantiated prejudice as though it were a fact. Let us hope they are not responsible for recruitment in their firm.

He just enjoys chemistry, but I agree, maths seems a more sensible option

@MingingTiles I think it’s still 50/50 because other skills are valued. However doing what you are good at is what matters.

DS had Theology and Ethics as his third A Level choice at his back up sixth form college because they didn’t do German.

DH is an Oxbridge law prof. and he says they look for 2 A Levels to be in strong traditional subjects and might only be a tad concerned if third subject was Art or Media or something like that. Philosophy and Ethics is fine. Cambridge interview almost everyone, Oxford don’t.

I am a lawyer as are 4 of my children. All those subjects are fine but I do njot think combining arts and sciences is always a good idea. I did History, English lit and German. 2 of the people in our wider family who went to Oxbridge by the way (or may be more) did 4 A levels not 3 (although of course you don't have to do 4 and it is better to get good grades in 3 than less well in 4).

English, History, and for the third Philosophy and Ethics would be fine.
If he might want to be a solicitor do bear in mind half of them do not do law first but convert later (and there is a new qualification system which I won't bore everyone about on here but on which I can answer questions if needed).

Yes I think the number of A levels has changed a fair bit in the last 15 years even. It really is less common to do 4 and unis are wanting higher and higher grades from the 3.

Certainly seems a long time ago when I went to uni 25 years ago and Oxbridge gave some a 2 Es offer after uni.... And there were unis you could get into with Cs and Ds.

The came the AS system and 3.5/4 became the absolute norm.

And now it very much is "focus on 3" even at my kids grammar school.

My sibling had 4 but one of our relatives in the last very recent few years had 4 and went to Oxbridge so not entirely unusual to do 4. (my 5 children who did not try for Oxbridge did 4 AS levels in the days when people did those and then 3 A levels )