Unfair advantage to early applicants - this crazy system!!

[pgtips2]

So, early applicants (e.g. Oxbridge, Med, Vet) get their applications in early. Heard of cases where those with e.g. AAA counterintuitively get offers that are lower, presumably because unis think they're high calibre 'Oxbridge' applicants and so therefore in demand.

I do detest a system where the deadline is end of Jan (I think?) but offers come in way before that for many applicants. All this talk about 'equal consideration' is rubbish, isn't it?

nobody is stopping any of them from submitting now

Well, actually school is. All done through them. They prioritise the early applicants and you're dependent on them to write the reference etc!

If an application is 100% ready to go, most schools would be happy to get it sent off early- I'd talk to your head of sixth form about it.

That said, some people think there is a disadvantage to applying to non-oxbridge unis early, because they think they are likely to be a second choice, and the students won't accept the offer- so it can work both ways!

Most young people don't apply right on the deadline.

I suppose that's true, good point. But if the predicted at AAA rather than AAA, maybe those universities might think they may be in with a chance??

I wouldn’t worry about it. Apply when ready as it won’t necessarily make much difference. DD applied for Oxbridge plus 2 others in October. One of those others offered in mid Feb and the 2nd at the end of March. She added another in early Jan and got an offer late Jan. The final one went in just before the end of Jan deadline and she heard a week later. So sometimes, depending on target university, applying early just means you still have to wait until Jan deadline for them to make decisions anyway!

Heard of cases where those with e.g. AAA counterintuitively get offers that are lower, presumably because unis think they're high calibre 'Oxbridge' applicants and so therefore in demand

'heard of' is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.... There isn't any evidence at all of unfairness in offer making by date.

It’s an equal consideration system if you apply before the deadline.

Universities don't tweak offers down because applicants are "Oxbridge candidates" - the vast majority have a set tarrif for non contextual applicants.

I know it seems a peculiar feature. It is also a bit baffling that some places (eg Durham for some courses) seem to worry grounders and contextual candidates before the bulk of standard ones who bit seems hard to imagine can't impact the latter.

But there is often little impact of application time on offer for the more mysterious unis, whilst quite a lot of the uni market offers to everyone with the right predicted grades.

So, in short, don't worry, but encourage your child to ready to submit when school is ready so the whole business doesn't consume too much time.

@ppgtips2 if you think it's a crazy system now, halfway through September, wait until you get to March/April time next year 🙃

There is nothing on earth that is as illogical as the UK university application process and how admissions departments operate

I agree, universities prioritise Oxbridge applications; they have plenty to do so can’t do them all at the same time.

I am not sure what you mean by ‘lower offers’, OP. If the standard offer is lower than the applicant’s PGs, no one is going to penalise the applicant by raising the offer to their PGs, although I have heard of a couple of recent cases o this board where applicants received an offer one grade higher than the standard written offer.

Obviously I can’t vouch for those. If true, as a former admissions tutor I don’t like it.

If you mean that early applicants not eligible for contextual offers may be getting lower than standard offers, then I agree with @titchy

That isn’t to deny that the logistics of university applications could be much improved

DC was an early applicant because applied to Oxford. Despite Astar Astar A prediction, no interview. It is a total lottery who gets interviewed by Oxford. DC got 4 other offers - the 2 potential insurances did give almost immediate offers, the 2 Russell Group much later and well in line with the timing that those who were not early applicants received their offers.

DC is humanities student in popular subject. The offers were - I thought - shockingly high. The contextual offers system needs an overhaul as it does nothing for those with minor disabilities like our DC but enables a contextual offer for students living in ‘deprived’ areas. One of his best friends got a contextual offer for this reason, merely because his local comp is rubbish. He didn’t go there and traveled 45 mins to CofE academy secondary that’s outstanding.

Both got their firm offer and same grades as predicted

I think Durham offers are sometimes the predicted grades. They certainly turn down students who don’t make the exact offer. DC chose his other Russell Group offer as a firm anyway

The whole system of pre-results applications is nuts anyway. They should do A Levels in May, have results late July then apply based on what they have for an October start. With a lottery for Oxbridge places.

If you think that there is unfairness and you can provide evidence to prove it, please do contact the Office of Students. Universities are bound to treat all applicants fairly and transparently.

But you might want to reflect on your allegations - a student predicted A starred A Levels is likely to receive an offer whenever they apply (within the deadline of course).

Other unis certainly offer to those who are likely Oxbridge candidates, evidenced by early applications and top grades/ personal statements. 3/4 of these won’t get an Oxbridge offer, and other unis are keen to have them.

Also bear in mind that even very selective unis need to significantly over-offer to fill up as each student can only attend one place. There will be plenty of places and offers available for those who don’t apply before the Oct Oxbridge deadline and top unis know some top students do t apply before January.

Lots of schools and colleges will be prioriating Oxbridge applications before half term and will be sending off vast amounts immediately after half term at end of Oct and early Nov. It’s still early in the cycle.

Also many of the most competitive courses at the top places are very late in offering….they are looking at their full pool of applicants and also watching as people firm and insure. It’s a long game and not the case that all the offers are given out in the first few weeks.

That said, definitely get on with the application. Yr13s should be finalising their choices and working on PS so that when school or college is ready, their application can get sent off. This isn’t so much so they can get offers early, but so they can focus on their A Levels and not let UCAS drag on. It is a distraction I’m study so best finished off quickly.

Hmm, many Medicine applicants receive no offers and reapply after results or change what they want to do.

We know a very good student who got just one offer from a Russell Group - Computer Science. We know another who only got his insurance type offer and got in at clearing where he’d been rejected (Durham) - History. Both of these were top rank students. DC’s sixth form college are highly rated and put forward 15 students for Oxbridge in English - about 1/2 got offers. No reflection on their abilities and all had good personal statements. Most had good EPQ prospects as well, including DC - not that Oxford give offers based on EPQ. Likewise Cambridge. One thing that Cambridge does do is interview all applicants in many of the major subjects, Oxford does not. Not even last year when some of their entrance exams didn’t work - first time with a new online platform.

I've been looking across numerous Student Room chats about for various RG unis (these were not Oxbridge but they were early applicants so assuming applying to Oxbridge or Vet/Med).

Definitely several who said they were early applicants with AAA and received offers below the published entry criteria (in once case entry criteria was AAA and they were offered AAB even though another school student, same school later was given a higher offer, still within their range but their predicted grades were lower than her friends (A*AA).

Of course, they may well have been lying but I can't see why they would and I did see quite a few of these posts?

They may have been contextual offers - applicants won't necessarily be clued up enough to know that their postcode on a low participation list.

And regardless of how many TSR posts you see, a UCAS dataset contains millions of rows each cycle - far more robust than teenagers on a chat forum!

If the school careers don’t help them with that they are pretty useless

Sorry what's the UCAS dataset - is this what the UCAS range of entry grades given when you look up individual courses?

IMO there should be a national offer day and there should be an achieved grades policy. DD was an Oxbridge applicant - she was offered 2 places within 48 hours of submitting her UCAS, the third the following week and the final one just before Xmas. All 4 were Russell Group. Then the Oxbridge system kicked in…which was quite the ride. I am not aware that there were any advantages as to the offer if you are an early applicant- only Cambridge and Durham tend to adapt according to school etc and are specific about which subject you need the A stars in. That said, contextual offers are made for reasons of fairness, Most unis are transparent about the standard offer they have for the course. Durham is known for offering very late.

DD actually took a place at Trinity College Dublin for various reasons not least because The Irish system is much fairer and works very well in a short period of time. No conditional offers, everyone receives a decision once the grades are known for all students. No references, no Personal Statements and no consideration about which school you went to. You can apply for up to 10 courses on your form. If you have the points, you have a place. If you don’t, you won’t and it doesn’t matter who your parents are etc. The application process runs independently of UCAS so you can do both and the fees are significantly less than the UK (although access to student funding is not widely available)

UCAS dataset - applicant data (characteristic, institutions applied for, offers made, acceptances etc etc etc) available for purchase from UCAS. And many organisations do publish it and carry out in depth research using it. If there was any inherent bias it would have been found.

I have participated in discussions about Post Qualifications Applications and I strongly support a move to this process.

Many like the idea until they realise that making it work requires adjustments from all stakeholders: applicants and their parents (timings of holidays), teachers, academics. I have participated on previous threads where various members of these groups (not the applicants, obviously) propose schemes putting the others to greater efforts in order to minimise their own.

Unless everyone is willing to do their bit, it won’t happen. I don’t think it will happen.