Unfair advantage to early applicants - this crazy system!!

[pgtips2]

So, early applicants (e.g. Oxbridge, Med, Vet) get their applications in early. Heard of cases where those with e.g. AAA counterintuitively get offers that are lower, presumably because unis think they're high calibre 'Oxbridge' applicants and so therefore in demand.

I do detest a system where the deadline is end of Jan (I think?) but offers come in way before that for many applicants. All this talk about 'equal consideration' is rubbish, isn't it?

Universities can and do make lower than standard offers to candidates they like, but surely this is more to do with the calibre of the candidate than the fact they applied early, and Oxbridge candidates tend to be strong applicants. The same candidate applying later might well get the same deal.

There’s also a school of thought that some unis - notably Durham - actively dislike early (Oxbridge) entrants because they don’t like being seen as an Oxbridge reject uni and prefer candidates who make it their first choice, but who knows. So much of this is anecdata!

All vets and medics have to apply early, so they will all get the same consideration as each other anyway (so if they’re getting lower than standard offers it won’t be to do with that).

I know it's not what the thread is about, but a PQA system works against those applicants who lack academic confidence (often BAME, first in family, disabilities, poor) who need time to get into the mindset of going to university, and communication over a period of several months from their firm offer often helps in that process.

I'm not sure when tests, interviews, auditions etc would be held if we had a system of PQA. I suppose academics could not go on holiday or do their research?

I know other countries manage it, but their educational systems are geared towards it. Ours aren't.

Why does Ireland allow 10 applications if everyone who applies with the right grades is accepted?

courses in the Irish system have differing points values. So sensibly a candidate puts a mix of points value. You are offered the course which has the highest points according to your results. You are made only one offer. The offers then cascade down over 5 rounds held weekly during late august/sept until all places are filled with candidates with the highest points profiles for each course.

so as an example, PPE might need 600 points. If all 75 places are taken in round one by all applicants with 600+ points that course is closed and candidates scoring less than 600 then get allocated the next highest points course on the preference.. If a candidate has 599 they won’t get a round one offer but might get a round two if there were not enough PPE candidates scoring 600 or more to fill all 75 spaces. If that makes sense?

courses in the Irish system have differing points values. So sensibly a candidate puts a mix of points value. You are offered the course which has the highest points according to your results

Ah - so it's not a post-qualification application system then. Sorry I misunderstood. Sounds the same as our system except you select your first and second choices rather than ranking all of them.

Anonymous posts on an internet forum are not data, nor evidence.

Some may use lower offers as a recruiting tool. We are a STEM School in the tier just beliw COWI with a very high offer and we never do this. When we briefly experimented with it, the effect was paradoxical. We may have picked up a few strong students relieved to have no worries but our analysis suggests that we lost more

Thank you for this reminder, @YellowAsteroid

In the past ( a long time ago) you identified your top choice on UCAS and unis could see your other choices. These days neither of these is the case.

All of the very competitive unis will be offering to those who apply to Oxbridge. They know that 3/4 of them won’t get Oxbridge offers. They want strong students. They know that they must over offer, because offer holders also hold other offers and might go to Oxbridge or other top unis instead. And they know some students will miss their offer and they might not then take them.

So, focus on being a strong applicant for the places you are applying to. If you are predicted all A stars you can apply where you like, and for all but the most competing subjects [Econ, CS etc) you may get offers from everywhere. For those extremely popular courses, you might still only get a couple and have to accept that. If you’re a strong applicant but not quite all A stars, for most courses at most places, if your grades are at the standard offer level, you’ll get an offer. It won’t matter when your application goes in. Those who don’t get offers are usually those whose application isn’t so strong, it’s not because if the timing of their application.

The advice of something aspirational (could be Oxbridge for some) and some that are achievable and something as a back-up is a good idea. Know that for the very competing courses at the top places, that even candidates with top grades and impressive PS don’t all get offers as there are just too many of them. But also know that most courses aren’t like this and if you have the right grades, you’ll get offers. And also that, even if you’re a near-miss come results day, many many places will still take you, but you can’t be absolutely certain on an individual course basis until results day itself.

Lower offers for applicants much stronger than the usual, as a recruiting tool, or offers where the grade drops if you firm, tend to be used by the not so selective unis, that really need to draw people in. Top courses at top places tend not to do these things - they don’t need to.

My understanding was that all applications made before the January cut-off will be considered equally. The Equalities Act 2010 requires it.

So those receiving early offers will be the ones where the University is content that they would receive an offer regardless of whether it was submitted early or late. (It can be assumed that many early applicants will also be applying to Oxbridge and some will be strong relative to the overall cohort of applicants.)

Where you then get problems is with Durham, LSE, Imperial etc. All cannot afford to go over numbers: Durham because of the predefined space provided by the college system, LSE because of its limited lecture rooms, and Imperial because of Lab space. They may make a few early offers to clear stars, but keep most in a gathered pool till January when they know the size and quality of that years applications, slowly accepting or rejecting as spaces become available or don't.

Universities will have clear scoring criteria. "Likely Oxbridge applicant" won't be one of them.

So helpful, thanks. And interesting that there are then - as I'd picked up, admittedly on social media anecdotally - that some unis DO under offer as a recruiting tool, but it seems only the more 'bums on seats' unis.

Thanks for your advice.

To add to what Titchy is saying, strong applicants who are likely to get Oxbridge (or UCL/LSE/ICL/Durham/Warwick etc) offers will need an insurance choice in case they don't meet their grades. All the Universities mentioned will be making more or less the same offers and are very unlikely to allow dropped grades, so pointless to have them as an insurance choice.

It will be in the interest of such Universities to make slightly reduced offers to strong applicants, increasing their chance to be put down as an insurance choice. The reduced offer may well be in line with what they would accept in clearing or allow on the day from someone who had firmed them.

There is nothing on earth that is as illogical as the UK university application process and how admissions departments operate

It’s the English system that needs an overhaul.

In Scotland the process for Scottish students is much more straightforward as you apply with your Higher grades in hand.

Interesting. So in this case, it would be an advantage for someone who is perhaps e.g. AAA to apply early (could have applied for Oxbridge but unlikely to get an offer as other applicants applying with 3-4 As etc) and then make an insurance for one of the top 20 and get the 'reduced' offer.

This was the case in the posts I saw on Student Room I believe...

At some very selective schools, many kids will get high predictions but may not necessarily choose to apply to go to Oxbridge. So someone with mainly 8/9s in GCSEs and perhaps AAA prediction would in some schools therefore normally apply after the October early deadline but perhaps these YPs might do better to try to squeeze their application in?

It is not the "applying early" that will get you the reduced offer. That would be illegal. All home applicants applying before the January deadline MUST be given equal consideration.

However it is possible for Universities to vary their offers, say for contextual candidates and based on transparent, if not published, selection criteria. So very strong applicants might get lower offers. But again applying early has nothing to do with it, other than early applicants are more likely to be strong.

On many courses a significant proportion of students wont have the published grades .

This was the case in the posts I saw on Student Room I believe...

ie ill informed 17 year olds.

Black and Indian origin students can get lower offers because Oxbridge is trying to increase take up. Similarly if a student’s postcode is in a low participation area. It probably has nothing to do with applying early

Oxford does not lower offers for anyone. What they do is contextualize the admissions process, so a wider range of students get through to interview. If they then get an offer, it will be the same as everyone else.

Where do people get this stuff!!!?

TSR posts are not data or evidence ….