Physics degree

[alwaysonadiet1]

Are physics, chemistry and maths A levels all required at Cambridge for a degree in physics? Thanks.

You need the Natural Sciences (NatSci) entry requirements, here:
https://www.natsci.tripos.cam.ac.uk/prospective-students/admissions

Cambridge doesn't do standalone Physics, but undergrads can specialise in it after starting the broader NatSci course.

Many thanks. Just started Year 11 so no guidance from school yet.

Ah, that makes sense. Planning ahead for A-levels, I assume?

If aiming for physics, take Physics, Maths and Further Maths (unless the school doesn't offer it). Chemistry would be a good shout too, if allowed to do four. Cambridge physics without Further Maths was bloody hard work, back in the day, and I suspect it won't have got any easier.

Yes. She would rather not take further maths if possible. Would physics, maths, chemistry and music work? She'd be trying for a choral scholarship too.

If she wants natural sciences then further maths is a good thing to do.

Any reason to pick Cambridge rather than a specific physics course, if your child is sure they want to do physics? And if not keen on (a lot of) maths, is physics the right course?

If she wants to do physics as part of natural sciences she will need Further Maths. No chance of an offer without it.

Well, little chance of an offer without it if her school offers further maths. They can't insist, as some schools don't do it. Mine didn't.

Hi, OP -

Maths, Physics and Chemistry is a fine core set of A levels. However AS or A Level FM is recommended on the Nat Sci website for the Physics pathway.

It is worth giving some thought as to what DD’s position would be and how she might feel if she were one of the few students on this demanding programme lacking FM.

She, like everyone, should be on a programme where she can thrive. Best wishes to her.

how she might feel if she were one of the few students on this demanding programme lacking FM

Desperate, and behind.

I speak from experience.

Ds is applying to Oxford rather than Cambridge this year. From what I've read and ds has said/ been told further maths is needed. I think for some other uni's it isn't as required but it does help. She may struggle without it.

I don't know if your daughter meets any of the wp criteria but have a good look at the Sutton Trust and other wp courses (they have Summer schools- it could help with personal statement and possible a contextual offer for other unis). Apply to Sutton regardless as she'll get the online course which will help.

I know that some of the Oxford colleges do reach out work with kids too. Have a good look at them as they're really worth it.

To add to the chorus about FM, I know that Oxford says you'll struggle without it, and I'm sure Cambridge is the same. Oxford used to give remedial maths sessions for students without FM to help them keep up.
Physics is very different from other sciences because its language is maths. Undergrad physics lectures are 90% maths at a very high level.

Do you know why she's reluctant to take FM? Is it because she can't bear to give up another subject in its place? That would be worth factoring into where she applies.

I did Physics at IC and found it gave a bit of breathing space for the first term or so. After Christmas you're on to maths that is not covered in FM at all (vector calculus, tensor algebra, series substitutions) so everyone is in the same boat anyway. There is possibly a bit more leeway in the NatSci curriculum where you don't specialise as early - after all biologists, who generally don't take FM, manage.

Really helpful responses. Thanks all. It sounds as if physics might not be the way forward after all due to the further maths.

@SeptimusSheep her school invited her to do further maths GCSE and she declined because she likes maths but doesn't love it. It sounds as if physics is not the best degree choice for her after all.

I think the crux is how much does she like Maths. Because Physics has a lot of Maths in it.

I got invited to do Further Maths A level at school and did it because I was flattered, not because I actually liked Maths. I'd already decided I didn't like Physics!

It was a massive mistake as to do well, you have to love Maths.

I think rethinking is wise, I wouldn't recommend physics if she doesn't love maths. I did physics A level without doing maths and parts of it was really hard without the maths A level alongside. I managed to get a B at A level but I wouldn't have managed to do it at degree level.

Biology and chemistry A level without maths was fine though and I did biological sciences at degree level, also no issues with not having a maths A level.

Hi again, OP -

I have just been looking at the Complete University Guide for 2025. Probably it is the best balanced ranking for what really matters to undergraduate study.

After Cambridge and Oxford in the top spots for Physics, No 3 is Durham and No 4 is Manchester.(2 recent Nobel prizes and all that flows from that) Both require A star A star A and neither mentions FM.

Now, it’s never as straightforward as it seems in the most elite programmes. The most competitive are starting to ‘tier’ their offers, meaning that they may first make offers to the candidates they perceive as most desirable. The only implicit screens at this level would be a third A star and FM. If DD gets the PGs stated I doubt they would reject her out of hand, but they might leave her hanging for a while.

If DD’s passion is Physics, these are excellent options and of course there are others. If she isn’t sure, Scottish universities could be an excellent choice. Strong English students have the option of Y2 entry, but Y1 is more general and could help DD confirm her choice or otherwise.

Physics seems to me to make sense only if DD likes higher maths in context quite a lot. I am intrigued, however, that she is interested in Physics without being intrinsically keen on FM and know this could make sense. I found high school maths boring and now my research is essentially mathematical. If I had lived in the UK I might have passed on FM. So I understand she might want to go ahead with Physics, and may have the talent to do so.

(I write as a former STEM admissions tutor in the tier just below COWI. I don’t think the tiered approach is really helping to create stronger cohorts, which is the excuse for using it)

There is possibly a bit more leeway in the NatSci curriculum where you don't specialise as early - after all biologists, who generally don't take FM, manage.

Yes, but biologists aren't aiming to specialise in physics; so the maths needed is of a different kind - more statistics, less quantum mechanics, for instance.

And Cambridge aims to throw enough at you in the first cross-disciplinary years that you could specialise in, say, chemistry, physics or geology in your final year. 'Leeway' isn't quite the term that comes to mind.

I would hate to put off a girl who wants to do physics, and I suggest she has a think about the kind of maths she does like. I couldn't stand statistics, more shame on me...

I think <poetryandwine> makes an important point - it is certainly possible for a natural mathematician not to love maths in Y10/11 and even at maths A level because it is relatively boring. If your DD finds maths easy and is most interested in physics concepts compared to other subjects, she should n’t dismiss FM at this stage.

Doing a physics degree and not wanting to do FM (if available) is a bit of a red flag to me. How are they going to handle the maths within the degree then.

Ah, I assumed you were talking about FM A-level. FM GCSE should be a no-brainer for anyone thinking of doing physics (or indeed any STEM) at A-level let alone degree level so the fact that she doesn't want to do it is a big red flag that physics is not for her.

We have different perspectives. If the DD is concerned that she may be topping out in Maths and if that concern is valid, I agree with you.

By contrast, I offer my experience.

In a cohort where the large majority have FM, lacking it is likely to be a practical problem. Where the majority lack it, the curriculum will reflect this and it won’t be a problem - in terms of content knowledge, that is.

As @LaerealSilverhand said, the Physics curriculum at the top universities will soon enough leave all high school Maths in the dust anyway. So weak skills, as opposed to lack of FM, is a big problem.

There are some universities offering entirely different approaches to a Physics degree where you don’t necessarily need the best Maths skills. This can be discerned from the Maths component of their entry requirements

PS Edit: By contrast, I offered my experience above