Parental pushyness

[MJDidIt]

Has anyone ever met parents who push STEM/quantitative degrees onto their DC "because it's what pays the best".

E.g. a work colleague was telling me today that he really wanted to do history but his parents didn't let him so him doing PPE was the compromise (because of the economics aspect).

Yes indeed. On average about one of my personal tutees per year has been pushed into our STEM subject by their parents. Our offer is very high, so these are able students. But with a few exceptions they do not thrive.

Partly they may have little enthusiasm for a difficult subject, but I also wonder whether this is sometimes a way of showing independence from their parents.

Yes, remember talking to a young person at an open day who said her parents wanted her to do medicine and she had only just got to the point of feeling able to admit that she really wanted to do a Humanities degree.

It’s not even true that STEM necessarily pays best. The richest people from my own uni cohort are the ones who studied things like PPE or History and then went into the graduate recruitment schemes at management consultancies or finance.

It’s not even true that STEM necessarily pays best. The richest people from my own uni cohort are the ones who studied things like PPE or History and then went into the graduate recruitment schemes at management consultancies or finance.

I expect my richest STEM degree graduates are the ones that went into the same graduate recruitment schemes at management companies or financial institutions.

You only have to read this forum to see this parental behaviour in spades!

I was relieved a bit when DC choosen Stem over conservatoire.

Yes, there do seem to be an awful lot of parents who push their views about what's "best" for their child regarding degree. Not just STEM degree related.

We had a parent sitting behind us at one Open Day talk who spent the whole time while we were waiting telling him to stop thinking about Creative Writing, it was a pointless degree and if he really must do it then English and Creative Writing might be just about acceptable but Creative Writing on its own was a ridiculous idea.
The poor child managed at one point to say "but that's what I want to do" before being engulfed in a further wave of parental opinion.

Yes, absolutely. I teach a humanities subject, and when I was at an English university I know a significant proportion of my students had talked down parental opposition, and had been ‘supposed’ to study a STEM subject.

DH and I guilty of nudging rather than pushing DC3.. We weren't successful. She knows her own mind/strengths. Most engaged of my 3 with her uni academics.

Having a bit of a wobble now as she's entering her last year of uni and looking for jobs. Not a huge number of relevant opportunities and those she's keen on have 2-3% offer rates. Engineering BF inundated with opportunities.

Luckily Scottish education broad. She has 2 sciences to H level, maths to AH level and outside subject quant modules in 1sr/2nd year at uni so could probably convert. Reluctant to do so though.

I think it comes from their peers too. My year 12 DC who hates maths was strongly considering taking it for A level as her friends were telling her that was the best regarded A level and what she should do. She is now very happy with her choices of history and languages and feeling sorry for those who are not enjoying their maths.

I imagine it’s potentially a lot worse in other countries.

Can you really blame them, when it's their money on the line? Thousands of pounds. Not pocket change.

Parents shouldn't push kids into studying a subject they hate. However, the advice of just 'doing what you love' with no thought as to future employability doesn't work either.

Some 17 year olds are mature, passionate about their subject and have researched prospects well. Others haven't - they 'really want it' because it looks fun, and they'll think about jobs later.

If you are not that well off and have struggled to get a decent job, a home and have little to give because you need it for your own future then yes, you are going to tell your kid to do a subject that actually pays enough for them to do the same. The fact that people are questioning this actually shows how warped our society is.

I'm a single parent who's already funded two children through uni, one graduated with a Business and Economics degree and the second Psychology and Counselling, both of whom now how very well paid grad jobs.

I have had to be honest and at times quite brutal in terms of their education choices.... as I have had to sacrifice a lot to support them, despite, saving for both of them.

Their degrees needed to count... as they needed the best chance of successful employment at the end of it because I simply couldn't afford to support them as adults x

No, I don't know anyone who "pushed" STEM/quantitative degrees onto their DC. I know some who encouraged them in that direction, but that's different. I also know some who told their children from a young age how they themselves didn't enjoy maths/science at school and that they are "hard" subjects, so guess what, it inevitably rubbed off on them. I also know two young people who had very expensive private school educations, were encouraged to "do what you enjoy" at uni, so chose Sports Science, and are now working in supermarkets (and not in graduate roles either).

I'm all for different strokes for different folks, but this country needs a lot more STEM grads if it's going to compete nationally.

I have a friend who’s barely speaking to me because I allowed my DS to do “easy” A levels and choose a second rate uni to do a sports related course Our DS are of very similar intelligence. Her DS was more maths oriented my DS a solid all rounder who was top set for all his subjects at GCSE apart from maths. My friend pushed her son into a STEM subject as was his sister who actually really struggled She has entered a business programme post grad. I suspect she will get married and become a SAHM.
DS had an unconditional offer for R G uni and if he hadn’t had a gap yr that’s where he would be going. He’s had time to think, he also been working in the construction industry as a labourer earning £600-700 a week he’s loving it but it is giving him experience of the other side of life. He works hard because sitting around is boring. I’m pleased he’s rediscovered his work ethic which all but disappeared during the pandemic. There is nothing better than six hours sweeping a building site to focus your ambition.
It is difficult not trying to steer them. but ultimately happiness is not measured in pound coins

@pastarasta33 yes parents may financially help but it's the kids who get the loans and have to pay it back.
@foxglovetree but it's a pity to do a creative or humanities degree to then have to get a graduate scheme job in finance if it was resisted as a degree choice - hopefully broader options are out there.
I don't know any of my friends who pushed their kids in any given direction. And a number of the kids have decided against university (as did one if mine). In fact they seem to go the other way and not really consider what jobs the desired degree may lend itself to. But I think if you dislike a 'more potentially remunerative' subject and are quite passionate about another then go for the latter, at least you will hopefully enjoy the three years and do well! After that? Well I think most people do jobs to put food on the table, not because they love it.

I think most of us sit somewhere in between “you want to make a living as a poet?, go for it darling!” And “you’re smart enough to be a partner in a law firm, and that’s what you’ll do, no arguments!”

I’ll admit I’m closer to the latter, that said, none of my children would allow themselves to be pushed into something they didn’t want to do.

Why is it a pity? Most of my uni friends (and most of the Oxbridge and RG Humanities students I taught subsequently) did a Humanities subject because they enjoyed studying it academically, but also because they knew it would leave a lot of career options open to them and going into finance was usually Plan A not a second choice. Of course they could have done lots of other things, but they fancied the money and the lifestyle. These were often kids from families who had plenty of university experience so the parents knew that most graduate recruiters don’t care what you study, only what skills it teaches you). Their degree choice wasn’t about resisting finance, it was about studying something they enjoyed and were good at and knowing they could use it as a stepping stone for a well-paid career. The vast majority of Humanities students don’t think of it as some vocation.

Many of the Oxbridge Humanities students I taught were perfectly clear they planned to do the law firm, city banks, and big corporate recruiter milk round. They weren’t hoping to spend their lives in an archive and then forced into the corporate world by cruel reality.

Humanities degrees help develop a lot of valuable skills that are very useful in finance graduate schemes. A finance degree would not necessarily develop all of the same skills

I’m also a Humanities academic. Over the years we’ve had a number of students restart onto our course from a STEM subject that they hadn’t really wanted to do, often having run up a year’s student debt before doing so. There’s one going into their final year now, who did a full two years of a STEM course before restarting with us.

@foxglovetree "These were often kids from families who had plenty of university experience so the parents knew that most graduate recruiters don’t care what you study, only what skills it teaches you"

This view is out of date and blinkered. It is fine for Oxbridge and (slightly less so for) other elite university grads, but not for the vast majority of students, because three things have changed since those parents were at uni:

1. As a legacy of the Blair government, the number of graduates has increased significantly relative to the number of jobs.
2. Since 2017, all large businesses now have to pay an apprenticeship levy to fund the national.apprenticeship scheme, and are getting that money back by investing in apprenticeships. They are therefore reducing the number of new grads they take on and/or are targeting their grad recruitment at specific degrees with specialist skills.
3. Online recruitment means that entry level jobs now get so many applications (thousands) that companies resort to using AI and agency sifting before they even read an application. So diamonds in the rough are less likely to get the opportunity to shine unless their CV is readable by robot.

These trends are already impacting young people with less "stand out" CV's than the average Oxbridge grad. The elite uni crowd may be safe to continue doing "any degree" for the time being, but the majority of young people would be better off looking at degrees and career choices that will help to fill the country's skills gaps.

But Humanities degrees teach excellent skills - critical thinking, analysis, communication, synthesis, effective and nuanced writing, the ability to understand and respond to competing viewpoints, creativity, etc etc. It’s not like you come out just with a factual knowledge of Hungarian medieval literature and nothing else. With the growth of AI, those human skills are going to be more important than ever.

For what it has worth, I’ve spent a decade of my career teaching in institutions where students arrive with much lower attainment - they also benefit from the training of the Humanities and are learning useful skills for the workplace. If you’re an average student without straight 9s at GCSE, still more important to be supported to choose something that you are good and not feel forced into a degree which doesn’t play to to your personal strengths.

However what is clear from this thread is that the premise of the OP is absolutely right.

I don’t understand how people “don’t allow” their adult children to study what they want to. How does that work, exactly? Ours very much knew their own minds at 18 and would not have been told what they should or shouldn’t do.

I know a family member didn't let their DD do a degree in dance

@foxglovetree those skills can also be learned in other ways, including from GCSE, A level, from STEM degrees, and from the university of life.

The premise of the op is that people "push" their children into STEM degrees, which is not proven, as your critical thinking skills should confirm.

Whether people use the carrot of more money to encourage their children in one direction or another is moot. What is more relevant is the reason that STEM grads generally get paid more - because there is currently higher demand for those skills.

Perhaps in future there will be more demand for humanities grads, and the tide will turn.