Some universities will go bust

[GinForBreakfast]

Reported in the Times today. It must be so worrying for students joining or returning in September/October.

My question is around the regulator, who knows where the issues are. What should they be telling students and when? It seems cruel, especially to young people, to withhold information. It has financial implications as well - people moving, paying deposits etc.

@westisbest1982

Is there a link to the article? The one in op isn't clickable for me.

I remember when a local uni dropped a vocational course and we had to field the calls as we offered a similar option.

There wasn't any plan. Just a go fend for yourselves. The applicants didn't find out till September. It seemed unnecessarily cruel and we had many tears and stress. Many had to take an enforced year out and reapply. So I'm not hopeful of any sort of support if this happens again for students.

Also agree with pp that some unis really flash the cash and they spend plenty on marketing. Every year we get sent branded chocolates, pen drives, and other freebies.

"Most" may leave after graduation, that would be entirely expected - domestic students usually go home after completing their studies too. Around 20% do stay on though, and that's not an insignificant number.

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/student-migration-to-the-uk/

Link to paywalled article:

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/labour-tells-watchdog-to-save-universities-from-bankruptcy-cmm99l0hw

@Rummikub

Every year we get sent branded chocolates, pen drives, and other freebies.

Completely different scale of spending. They're spending tens/hundreds of millions on staffing, new buildings, new equipment, etc. A few hundred or even a few thousand of a marketing budget on such freebies is trivial in the big scheme of things. It's not as if they could afford to build a new lab if they zeroised the marketing budget! Anyway, marketing is needed to attract students to fill the courses and accommodation blocks it will more than pay for itself even if it just attracts a few more students.

I agree some universities are wasteful with money. A certain university in the north west is spending £90 million pounds on a new library that opens in 2028, when there's nothing wrong with the current one.

“Labour tells watchdog…” To do what? Change the world? Find unexpected billions in a desk drawer?

I suspect we’ll see loads of this in the next five years.

Seriously worrying. The knock on effects for society would be huge too. In many cities universities are the major employers.

Universities spend because they have to promote the 'student experience'. Students (their parents) complain when they see a 1970s drab building so to attract more students you find universities spending millions on pointless cladding for example.
Students all want en-suite rooms meaning the old corridor shower style buildings are either knocked down or redeveloped. Building costs are a huge reason why universities got into trouble particularly over COVID.

We will indeed.
I am also though of the view that Universities have expanded way beyond what is/was needed by us as a country to educate our population and remain leaders in some areas. In private business no one would take much notice of a weak, poorly run or bad business going under. I think this will happen now.

Yes of course it's on a different scale. But it's still wasteful imo. Tat we don't need.

Think spending on student accommodation is fine and necessary. VC salaries less so.

Well I don’t know about the rest of the country…but the uni near me (old polytechnic) has spent millions on updating their buildings etc. Theyve then had to rely on oversea students(who have to pay much higher fees) but I think there’s been changes to student visa so aren’t able to get as many overseas students now.

So for this uni, it was their own mis management and reliance on a relatively new student stream (in the past it was the sort of place for local students, wasn’t ranked particularly high).

Cant blame anyone but themselves

@Twistybranch but by upgrading their buildings they probably increased the likelihood of getting overseas students. Universities can’t just rely on English students who have capped tuition fee, as these capped fees don’t pay the bills

yes but that doesn’t make a difference to student visas changing. Huge numbers at the uni were students that could take family across with them. The local school had many kids who had a parent at the local uni. Those are the rules that have changed. So the uni doesn’t have students paying high fees now

I feel like the majority of people don't know that the whole funding stream changed as funding councils stopped supporting teaching. Unis didn't just start spending madly and make themselves bankrupt!

I agree a large number of universities are wasteful with their spending. If the Government bails them out then there is no incentive to cut back on wasteful spending. If there is no bail out then a number will go bust (perhaps encouraging others to be more prudent with their spending).

That said as a previous poster mentioned tuition fees have not increased for years but costs have gone up. Perhaps a compromise solution if the Government is to spend more money would be to include VAT on university education as well?

Same here.
They have cut courses but are still struggling. They used to have lots of Students from Bahrain but now rely heavily on Chinese Students and even those numbers are down.
There isn't much else in the town now and if the Uni wasn't here it would be worse

We used to have huge number of Chinese students too, but after the pandemic they never returned

With falling birth rates, many young and old students familiar with online course delivery, and a negative attitude towards debt, higher education needs an overhaul.
Relying on overseas students is not sustainable (Canadian Uni’s must now guarantee housing for all overseas students for their entire time at uni).
It’s also been noted that certain courses are more appealing to overseas students but that the courses they predominantly take are not areas of work that Canada has a shortage of. I’m sure the UK is having similar housing and skill set challenges.

This is the issue for me. As soon as you publish a list of unis that ‘may’ go bust if they cannot make enough cuts or increase revenue… people will stop applying. Especially the moneyed overseas applicants that seem (right or wrong) to be underwriting our education system.

My DD is applying in Sept and I have to say I will be navigating around the list to ensure she doesn’t have a disrupted uni experience - we, like many others, are still reeling from GCSE/Lock down disruption. This generation of students have been well and truly stuff!

@Twistybranch but why are you saying it is mismanagement by university when it was the Government who changed the visas etc. And no-one could have predicted COVID and the many impacts that has had.

Universities had to attract overseas students as English students don’t pay the bills

14 years of government dictated by headlines in the Daily Mail.

Get rid of foreign students.....Micky Mouse degrees.....Other People's Kids will be told to become bricklayers instead of dreaming of university....

And here we are.

I live in a city with a failing university. The implications of it/when it goes bust are huge for the local economy. The uni employs 5000 people or thereabouts and has approx 20000 students who all come and spend money in the local area, rent houses, and work in our shops and cafes.

There needs to be a serious plan for these type of areas. Whether that's bailout or relocating civil service or incentivising large companies to take over such sites.

It's far bigger than the two years of students who might need to transfer.

Couldn't agree more @Thatsnotmynose . Similar situation in my town. I used to work in our local Uni on the professional services side and I watched round after round of cost-cutting measures until there was simply nothing left to cut. The writing has been on the wall for years.

Because the works started 15 years ago when the student population was local. They overspent by millions so then they were actively targeting and relying on overseas students. The uni building was ugly, but they spent crazy amounts trying to alter the exterior and the grounds. It really wasn’t worth it

@Twistybranch but maybe they knew they had to diversify, like all other universities. If they had done nothing and not attracted overseas students, would they be in a better place now? No university can survive with just local students

Needing absolutely requiring foreign students to prop up the Uni’s was a bandaide solution to a much bigger problem and obviously unsustainable.
Less staff, less programs, more efficient delivery.