Anyone Know Of A Pupil Returning After Leaving For Another Sixth Form?

[Charlysunnysky]

Our son wanted to go to the independent school he at as older boys on his sport teams went and enjoyed it. Of our closest secondaries 1 is in special measures ands the other 'requires improvement'. We were very borderline if we could afford it. However we made it work, doing overtime and going without holidays - nothing major.

He was certain she'd want to go it a mixed Sixth Form (you know what's coming next). Fast forward 5 years and he has thrown himself into everything cricket, rugby, music and doesn't want to leave. However, DH isn't massive on continuing to do overtime, and we needed to extend the house so I can work from home, and my Dad (who's recently widowed) can visit & stay over.

DS has been offered a place at a better-performing state grammar the same 30 min distance away, and has said he will go, but I can tell he is nervous and worried about the change. We could just about manage to keep him at the independent but I'd really like him to try another setting because I think it will grow him as a person and it looks like it would be a good fit for him.

I also don't want DH running himself into the ground if there's a good alternative to try. However I wanted to tell DS that if he really hates it after the Autumn term we could look into him re-joining his old school. It will mean adjusting our belts again but for less than 2 years and we will have tried the alternative. I thought it will make him feel more confident knowing there's a way back if he needs it. He's the sort of person that would still give the new opportunity 100%, as he knows the benefits of changing, and to that school in particular.

I just wondered if anyone else has done this or knows of anyone who has? I can remember asking a parent of an older pupil at the independent if anyone left to go to other sixth forms and she said yes, but 2 had come back after Christmas. I know there's no guarantee there would even be space for him in all his chosen subjects, but I was thinking to email the school and ask what the protocol would be.

My DH thinks this is a good idea, but I'd really like to know about any experiences of this. He will keep in touch with his current schoolmates as they play on the same sports teams, but I'm aware that the curriculum may not be taught in a the same order.

DD’s state grammar they start with 4 A levels then drop one. Only kids doing 4 are those doing maths and fm.
Thought process was better to score highly in 3. You only need 3 A levels for uni entry inc competitive courses. They offer EPQ too.
Sixth form is very full on. They need the predicted grades, uni visits, supra curricular for ucas, extra exams if doing medicine, law etc, work experience.
I’d really not be swayed by being able to do 4. It’s too late if it’s not going well end of yr 12 and has say AABB predictions as those mean he is limited where he can apply to and risk won’t get offers. Better to have 3 mocks passed at AAA at end yr 12 than spreading self too thin.

@Investinmyself Yes, I can see that a switch back will leave him with a mountain to climb even if it's done before October half term. The syllabus is definitely taught differently, and likely different order too.

I think he may need to the option the independent offers of taking 4 A levels so he has longer to decide if he wants to pursue medicine or engineering.

Either way, he'll need to be focussing as much as possible on those A levels, not trying to establish himself in the new schools sports teams or being too distracted with making new friends. I think if he hadn't got a p/t job, girlfriend and outside sports, he'd might be okay but having weighed up the responses against his situation I feel he's spreading himself too thin to cope with a new environment.

If he's desperate to try the Grammar, I'd fully support that, but as it stands I think it's better to stay put.

Don't underestimate how much harder A Levels are than GCSE. Studying 4 A Levels, having a part time job, being heavily involved in sport and working towards Gold DofE - is a lot, even before you factor in the supra curricular activities he'll be encouraged to take up. And he might want some sort of social life as well :) That will be another reason why the grammar school doesn't allow it.

A thought on finance. If your household income is enough that you can pay for private education, he’ll likely only receive the minimum loan for university. That means another 3 or more years of supporting him.

You may well be better with him at the state and spend the two years paying down your debt and saving up for uni.

Ok, I’m a dentist, I have a dd who’s a doctor another who’s a pharmacist! My advice would be do three A levels from the outset and get those high grades. He won’t get in to go dentistry with AA BB I’m afraid. My medic dd also did AS physics, she did well, but realistically the unis weren’t interested!

It sounds like staying put might be best fit but I really would caution against 4. There’s a reason grammar has great results/gets into top unis and limits to 3.
It’s totally different to gcse. Lots of content and fast paced. If he’s wanting to keep hobbies up too at a high level it’s very easy for grades to slip.
At end of day for competitive courses it boils down to grades.
My DCs friend is having to have a yr out as her predictions based on yr 12 mocks were too low for courses she wanted.
Can you look at uni entry requirements for both courses.

Mines not gone for med/den/vet but I know those who did were juggling weekly volunteer work eg care home, plus prep for ucat, weekly lunchtime sessions of med/den/vet club etc. The grammar school was known for its high success rates but required a lot of time and effort from the pupils.
Good point re uni finance too. I found yr 12 and 13 expensive with driving lessons, cost of multiple uni visits - time off work, train and hotel.
Min loan is £4700 a year, in lots of towns you are looking at a significant top up for accommodation and living costs.

His A level options were Maths, FM, Physics and to keep dentistry in the running, Chemistry if he is allowed to do 4 at the independent and most likely drop to A/S in one of those at the end of Y12 depending on how it's all going and if he's closer to deciding on a career path.

He was hoping to get either an apprenticeship in Biomechanical engineering or apply for the Army Medical Corps and become a dentist that way. He knows both are tough to get into so he will need to work his socks off. At this point, he has no plans go to uni. Of course he had no plans to remain at and independent school for sixth form and we know hoe that panned out.

I would think you could do it in the first few weeks, assuming there's going to be space in the independent of course. But after that it would be too late I think.
I would also agree with everyone else counselling against doing 4 A levels. There's no real advantage to 4 and as others have said, it is far better to have the best grades you can get in 3. At my DC's school (well regarded State) the only people who really do 4 are those who are doing Further Maths, even those who are headed for Oxbridge.
If you are in England, AS levels aren't really a thing any more anyway (apologies if you've said you're in Wales and I missed it.) There are a few still, but they're a totally different syllabus, not the year 12 content of A level so a 4th A level dropped after a year doesn't get you a qualification and is potentially detrimental to other grades.
Whichever school you finally decide on I'd really encourage him to choose 3 A levels and stick with them. There would certainly be subject combinations that would meet the requirements for both engineering and dentistry, he doesn't need to do four.

If maths and fm are 2 of 4 then that’s different and was permitted at DD’s school.
I know from DD’s peers going for apprenticeships they were extremely competitive and time consuming, multiple interviews and presentations.
He may decide to at least look at universities too.

That's such good advice and I will pass that on. Thank you.

Mathematics, Chemistry, Biology would have been a better combination to cover both dentistry & engineering but he really enjoys Physics and Chemistry: Biology is his least favourite science.

I would say Maths, Physics and Chemistry would keep the most options open. My DS is (hopefully!) starting an engineering degree this year and everywhere he applied seemed to want maths, physics and more or less any other A level. Obviously it depends on the specific sort of engineering though - I presume chemical engineering would want chemistry whereas physics probably key for mechanical. My niece is doing dentistry and didn't do biology A level.
I would look at admissions criteria for courses that appeal to him and work backwards from there. There's more flexibility than there used to be over subjects for lots of courses. At a similar stage my DS was undecided between physio, sports science and mechanical engineering which we thought were too disparate to be able to keep all the doors open for. But actually Maths Physics and PE did just that!

@MrsAvocet That's brilliant and I'm glad their choices got them where they wanted to be.

All the best to your son, too!

At least 1/3 and definitely all the best students at DS's school wanted to go to "better" sixth forms as they had much better results (clue: they were more selective!). He told me 2 years later and towards the end of Y13 that all of the ones he had heard from directly or through others had regretted leaving. The biggest reason was that it took them a long time to get used to the new school and they said it was not worth it. Others also didn't find the better performing schools to be actually better.

I really understand the cost problem though. In our case it was state. As others have said make sure he doesn't follow all his hobbies as it will be too much work for him.

@chocorabbit Thank you - that does make sense. It takes an awful lot out of you, getting used to a the lay of the land, new teachers, new dynamics, in a new sixth form setting - and if you need those A's, every single thing that takes up your time or distracts you, affects the probability of that happening. I had to choose wisely and so will he.

A levels are often referred to as a 2 year course but they are really only five terms as you only get a couple of weeks of the summer term. Even some of the spring term of the UVIth will be spent on revision lessons. Plus there will be at least a week of mocks in the UVIth and a week of summer exams at the end of the L6th. So A levels are taught over about 62 weeks.
If you take out the Autumn Term of the L6th, that is about 12 weeks - or a fifth of the course - that you will be missing. That is a significant chunk.
It isn't just the academic side but all of the careers and Uni preparation too which can be done very differently in different schools and which you'd need to think about what you're missing out on.

You say the Grammar would be resistant to your DC taking 4 A levels (even if one of those is FM?). If this is the case then, surely, at the Grammar he would be expected to drop the FM as most schools are reluctant to allow FM to be one of three (unless someone is likely to perform very well at FM at the outset and definitely only looking at uni courses where FM as one of three is OK).

@Charlysunnysky

He said he's also been knocked back for a few of the mentoring and industry experience opportunities he's applied for in the last yaer or so, because they're only open to state pupils.

Just being at a state school doesn't qualify a pupil for these schemes. My ds have all have missed out because:
a) they have parent(s) who went to University
b) our postcode isn't classed as being a deprived area

We're not high earners but the ds are male (obvs 😁), white and considered middle class which I'm guessing your DS will be too. WP criteria seem to exclude them from all of the experience opportunities they have applied (there's always a questionnaire which elicits data to enable them to be screened out) and those accessed through school have also resulted in a "Sorry your child doesn't meet the criteria for needing this opportunity to gain an insight into X, Y or Z" but we have no connections to try and get then a similar opportunity by applying directly to businesses ourselves. DS2 sent off a raft of e-mails which he spent ages composing just to get referred to the schemes which them screened him out.

If they’re not in POLAR or IMD Q1 postcodes, not first in family and not in a disadvantaged group like care experienced, they aren’t WP, so I’m not sure why you’d have a problem with them not being eligible for WP schemes?

Being white and male isn’t a problem (white working class boys are a big group in WP targeting!).

My DD left her school to attend a different sixth form. The head of sixth form at her secondary school told us that she'd be welcome back if she changed her mind, as most students who leave to go elsewhere end up coming back.

In the end, she didn't go back and enjoyed the new setting, but it was interesting that the school were used to students leaving and then returning.

In one of my dd's years there was a lad who got a scholarship to Eton, went for two weeks then returned into the 6th form at their state comprehensive.
It is unusual though, and the only one I know that came back after a term also ended up redoing the year because he'd missed too much and found he was playing catch-up all the time.

@Bunnyannesummers

Being white and male isn’t a problem (white working class boys are a big group in WP targeting!)

Being a female interested in a traditionally male dominated field and/or not being white do seem to have enabled some of the ds's friends to access these experiences so I'll stick by my assessment that the trio of white, male and labelled as middle class is the combination that excludes them.

The son of 2 pharmacists (who own 2 local pharmacies) got onto a WP scheme for medicine. They live round the corner from us, same postcode.

Well yes, because it’s the middle class bit that matters! The advantages that gives means your son doesn’t need WP schemes!

Without full details of the scheme or the student in question I couldn’t comment on why he got on but could be that he’s in a specific underrepresented group that you might not know anything about, like having been in care or being a young carer. It could be that the scheme targets by school and his schools on a list because of its demographics rather than his personal demographics…different schemes target different ways depending on the data of the institution and how it’s set up.

@thehousewiththesagegreensofa That really gets it into perspective - thank you. It was clear that switching back will have a huge impact and we disciussed it last night. He knows that a call must be taken in the first fortnight - no later, and agreed with the reasons behind this.

@PerpetualOptimist His mock grades for Maths and FM were 9's (same for Chem, Bio & Physics) however we'll see what 22nd Aug brings. I've suggested he email the Sixth form leadership to let them know what he's proposing as I think this is a conversation they need to start prior to results day which could be concluded on the day itself; they do need to be ware of what he is aiming to do and why.

@notalotofoptions I'm sorry your DS's missed out. Where one person benefits, another misses out. I've explained to my own DS that social mobility is important otherwise it's just the same privileged few getting the top jobs. But there has to be balance to make it fair.
We aren't middle class, and live in a deprived postcode (hence the 2 local schools being 'requires improvement') and and neither of us went to uni (we both came from families where unless you wanted to be a doctor, teacher or lawyer, it wasn't even a consideration).
However when DS selects his school in the drop down, he is screened out. I guess his independent education is regarded as the 'levelling up' though we are no wealthier than our neighbours, who have newer cars, holidays and don't work the same longer hours. This was our choice though, and that as theirs.
I went to the school their DC are at, and it was so bloody hard to get an education. The teachers were uninterested, constant class disruption, bullying, zero inspiration from anywhere, and when we visited, it hadn't changed. Anyone who rises above this to be a self starter deserves every opportunity to shine.
It's just a shame somebody else misses out in order for that to happen.
I don't agree with nepotism though; as you say the well-connected get opportunities that aren't openly offered. We needed a summer intern to do some archiving and my boss chose a client's son without advertising the position because he 'knows he's a good lad', and the client owes him a favour now. The son didn't turn up - he decided to spend the summer with his mum in Florida and I had to chuckle....while I drafted an advert.

Our ds went to primary school together, they're at the same secondary school, the family are neighbours and we've socialised together for years along with other long term school parent friends. The only difference is that my ds is white.

A couple of years ago another of our social group's daughter was accepted for an insight into a male dominated field work experience opportunity which another of my ds applied for too and was screened out. Both her parents went to Uni, one is a GP and the other works in H.R. manager level role.

School admit the WP criteria are a blunt tool. I'm currently going through this with my 3rd ds so have plenty of experience.

University education has become an expensive process for parents deemed middle class and not getting access to taster experiences in possible course choices/future careers that a course can lead to could result in students dropping out of a course or limiting their career path post graduation.

Perhaps my youngest ds writing in to various businesses to ask about the possibility of work experience (mentioning that they're not looking to be paid at all) denotes them as too middle class to be even considered but they very much want to know more about the various branches of that particular field of career to assist with Uni course choice and they can't get any response other than referral to various schemes which then screen them out. The only way they might qualify is if they lied about whether I am Uni educated myself or not (their father didn't go to Uni) but we're not cheats.