Cambridge. Things we don't know we don't know.

[Sorenlorrenson]

My son is set on studying maths at Cambridge. We are working class and don't know anyone who went to Cambridge.
I have recently found out that Magdalene and Caius are not pronounced how they are spelt. There must be loads of stuff like this, stuff we don't know because we are poor and common.
If you know something you think we don't, please share.

The books on mathematical thinking from@PasteldeNata78 are a great idea, OP.

Cambridge STEP website has lots of resources including past papers with solutions. However these must be used wisely! Past questions are not a guide to future questions, unlike A levels. They are for teaching how to think creatively

Oh yes, completely forgot you can’t apply to both! (In the same year 😉)

It depends on what kind of extracurriculars. Obviously not the normal ones like being in the school clubs etc.

More along the lines of if the applicant has published a book, participated in public life at a high level (eg Greta T), started a movement of national significance.

There’s lots of A* kids out there, how do you tell them apart?

Obviously I’m talking from more than a decade ago, but from my friends and acquaintances the ones that got interviews/ places, one placed top 3 in a global subject Olympiad, one was a public speaker of significance aged 17-18 with a wide range of extracurriculars where she was a high performer, one was an international athlete in a sport that’s quite Oxbridge with an unusual family background, and one had written a book. Others that I know that applied with top grades didn’t get selected.

I do assume normal high performing kids get in but if you have a profile, in my experience that really helps your chances.

Again, that’s my experience and more in humanities than STEM. Perhaps STEM is more based on tests.

Maybe things have changed changed but as a student I used to work a part-time job for a highly sought after course where you needed the maximum grades to be considered (not Oxbridge), doing things like outreach etc. Every applicant had the same grade profile, so to be truthful almost all places went to people who were high achievers in the field beyond having a good A-level grade. The ‘normal’ kids who were just very good students stood out once the students started socialising and finding out about each other.

How to show you know nothing about Oxbridge without saying you know nothing about Oxbridge.

You are not allowed to apply to both in the same year. Extra curricular means very little for maths. You need to be a maths genius and fly through STEP.

Kings college Cambridge always had the most state school kids in it. That might be worth looking at.

Complete twaddle

I think this man has made my point much better.

So much incorrect Information and advice in this post I don't know where to start really so I would just say ignore the whole thing!

In the same year 😉 But yes point taken, completely forgot about this one.

Thank you so much Poetryandwine and others who responded. NRTFT yet but I appreciate you getting back on my long list of questions.

Feeder school? What on earth are you talking about? My DD was the first to go to Oxbridge from her school in at least 10 years.

OP the majority of students at Oxford and Cambridge went to state schools, just like your DS.

OP The Cambridge admissions tutors will not care whether your ds can pronounce the names of the colleges correctly or know about the 101archaic rituals they observe. As someone who has had 2dcs go through the Oxbridge admissions process in the past 4 years I would advise he concentrates on his subject knowledge and on demonstrating why he finds it interesting and exciting by reading around it and developing his own ideas.

He also needs to be able to talk about the subject and explain it to others who are strangers. At interview they will present him with unfamiliar topics and ask him to work problems out with some prodding to see how he reacts to being challenged like this as it will be similar to the tutorial system. He may not necessarily get the correct answer but it’s the journey he takes rather than the destination he arrives at they will be interested in. So some practice in this will be useful to manage nerves. Some interviewees come alive in these situations and some clam up regardless of their academic abilities.

Depending on where you live there will be a UK regional coordinator from Cambridge uni who could help you so look on their website for their contact details. If his school is not au fait with Oxbridge admissions procedures you will need to familiarise yourself with it and do most of the leg work to make it happen. I would say as others have already done so getting an offer is a massive lottery so make sure he has other unis on his list that he is happy to go to in the event he doesn’t get into Cambridge. One of my dcs was successful and has just graduated the other got to interview stage and was rejected but is happily studying elsewhere.

@ElleintheWoods Do you have a child at SPGS or Eton and you're worried about their place being stolen by someone from a state school?

The admissions tests are sat in your own school. Why on earth would anyone be intimidated sitting at a desk alongside someone they've been doing PE with for years?

Most interviews are now held online. Again, no opportunity to be put off by anyone else.

No specialised prep is required. DD discussed time travel, car parks and the Kardashians in her interviews.

The admissions process is carefully monitored to ensure that the rare few who have been able to work shadow in an investment bank, speak at the UN or publish books because of their social advantage have exactly the same opportunity as those who live in the back end of beyond or have had to work in a pub after school to contribute to their household finances with no time to write a book or do unpaid work experience.

Competing at sport at a national level could actually jeopardise your chances, as you may not have enough time for both your studies & training with such short terms.

In terms of proving "appearances really don't matter" - we had people turn up for interviews in everything from jogging bottoms and a t shirt to a full suit and the same full gamut of attendees were offered places. They really don't care at all what you look like, where you're from or who you are. They can about academics.

I got the x and y axes on a graph muddled up during my interview due to nerves and they still let me in.

I'm sorry if you think my comments were unhelpful, I was genuinely trying to be helpful.

Maybe things have changed but the kids that applied from my school attended interviews in person and found it awfully formal compared to what they were used to day-to-day. When I did an in-person interview for admission (not Oxbridge), I found my interviewer very formal and unwilling to engage in any smalltalk/be human, so being ready for this would have helped at the time. Doing more test practice/ being even more prepared for a highly specific entry pathway would have helped.

Kids can be shy and if you practice for interviews, you are much more likely to excel in them. Not everyone is naturally outgoing. Your school teachers may not have the experience of prepping for this type of entry procedure, so it makes sense to talk to someone who knows it well.

Kids can also be nervous exam takers and practising and getting comfortable with specific types of questions/ problems helps overcome that.

My point is you get one shot at specific tests and interviews, so prepare for those specific tests and interviews in a specialised manner. Wouldn't you prepare for a job interview meticulously?

But I best clock off this thread as I don't think anyone agrees with me.

Er, it's still no re: extra curriculars. They do not care.

Look on here: www.maths.cam.ac.uk/undergrad/admissions/undergraduate-admissions

There are maths specific open days and events before the June/July open day. It might be worth considering these or the other events they do.

As mentioned, STEP is the entrance test. There are two of them: STEP II and III. This is Cambridge's own site and help about the tests. They recommend studying the foundation level during year 12 (1st yr of sixth form): maths.org/step/. The STEP papers are sat at the same time as A Levels.

These are the two things I wish DS had known earlier, because if you wait until the summer open days, you've already lost precious time/opportunity.

My other advice would be - don't fixate only on Cambridge. There are other universities! Also, you have space for 5 on your UCAS form.

There are other different entrance tests for maths at other universities too. MAT for Oxford and TMUA for some others. These are sat in October at the beginning of yr 13. It is probably worth looking into this too.

My DS is thinking about Maths at Cambridge for 2025. I don't know how to pronounce the college names either!

Churchill was nice and near maths. The gowns at Cambridge cost £30 apparently (£25 at Oxford). They wear them to sit exams at one of them (Oxford I think). Oxbridge seems to be surprisingly cheap to be a student and fairly nurturing by the sounds of it with Junior Common Rooms and University 'parents'. I learnt all that at the open days!

I am a former Russell Group STEM admissions tutor and I agree with you 100%.

Part of the reason pupils from independent schools do well in Oxbridge interviews is that they are coached so well for them. Many interviewers try to work with shy applicants and couldn’t care less about their presentational skills. But some don’t make the effort, and there is only so much you can do with someone who is badly panicked.

If you aren’t getting good prep for interviews and entrance exams at school - and perhaps even if if you are - you need to be proactive seeking out tuition and coaching opportunities (many free or low cost)

At the Cambridge open day, the man who gave the talk was very clear that interviews for Maths went "Hello". 'Maths questions'. They want the student to talk about how to answer the maths questions, and to explain their reasoning. They want the student to get stuck so they can see how they approach a problem they can't do.

Therefore, the preparation would be talking about maths problems and how to approach them. This is what needs to be practiced.

I do agree with you that there must be a massive advantage in approaching the application, interview and STEP if you go to a school that understands the process and can prepare you for it.

At Cam you stand at the solid square end of the punt if you are the one punting.
At Oxf you stand at the slopey/ramp end to punt.

Cambridge colleges have "courts" but Oxf ones have "quadrangles/quads".

But they both have staircases.

Oxford staircases are usually named with roman numerals. So if someone lives at Ii:IV Front Quad they live in room IV of Staircase II on Front quad.

Cambridge names staircases with Letters and rooms with numbers. It would be B4 Front Court.

At oxford you have tutorials with a tutor 1-1 or 1-2.

At cambridge you have supervisions with a supervisor.

Oxford tutors are usually based in your own college. But cambridge supervisors could be based in a different college so on your bike you get and off to locate them.

At Cambridge your bedder makes your bed in the morning and cleans your room. If you don't want her (it's always a her) to come in because you have got your boyfriend round, you put your bin outside your door.

I do read quite a lot on here thst students from top independents are ‘coached’ for interviews in their schools. Can I just say, from direct recent experience of the various ‘top’ London schools in recent years, this is simply not true. They have one mock interview. Maybe 2. I realise many state schools would not even do that, but I wouldn’t call one mock interview ‘coaching.’

Think about it - how can any school ‘coach’ Oxbridge applicants when they will all be going for totally different subjects in any given year? How would this ‘coaching’ even work and when?

I think many people in state schools worry they are missing out on some critical admissions insights, but really they are not.

There is nothing whatsoever that can’t be googled. The Cambridge website has all the admissions stats for the last 5 years - there are no secrets. You can see what the odds are. Everything is there and freely accessible to anyone. No school can give any extra or privileged info than what is on the websites anyway.

No school will be doing a course of interview coaching. If people want this and feel it’s worth the money, there are loads of agencies that can provide it. Again just Google.

@FiveFoxes yes if you Google 'Cambridge Maths' they say pretty much the same thing. The interview consist solely of maths questions .

@IwillNOTplayfastandloosewithpublicfinances I'm not sure whether it's coaching per se but being articulate and confident enough to explore ideas verbally seems to be a skill emphasized at private schools.
Of course, I have no doubt that MC parents in naice, leafy suburbia 'private by stealth' good schools are capable of building such skills in their kids. In many families I know dinner table discussion involves current affairs, economics etc. That's how they learn to reason and exchange ideas.

Many kids from lower socioeconomic backgrounds (of course a generalisation) don't have such exposure. They may be intelligent and gain a lot of knowledge through reading but not have the experience and/or confidence to perform well in an interview.

@TheSquareMile That most definitely would interest him. Thanks.

Thanks everyone, so much helpful information here.
My son isn't worried about not knowing how to pronounce these things. He likes to talk about maths, but I can't join in with those conversations, so we talk about Cambridge,
He is %100 sure he will get a place there. He practices STEP questions , and always achieves the highest grades in his year. I hope it will be enough.

Also I would say that my son isn't articulate or confident when talking to strangers, but if he did get to interview he would be talking to other maths people about maths, he could do that.

He sounds like DS2, who is at the end of 1st year of A levels and also has his heart set on Cambridge for Maths. He has already decided to apply to Peterhouse, having visited a number of colleges by himself to help make up his mind.

We know how competitive it is, DS1 had an interview but didn't get further than that, although he is now at Durham doing Maths and having a great time.

DS2 is very strong and I think has a good chance, but at the end of the day, it depends how the interview and STEP goes, if he gets to that stage. He is at the Cambridge selective state Maths 6th form where they do lots of Maths outside the A level Maths and Further Maths curriculum and is loving it.