Doctor Parent Help

[mumsneedwine]

Here you go

I do hope that happens @mumsneedwine . What's FPR? Probably something really obvious that's just eluded me this morning 😀

Full pay restoration.

mumsneedwine I wondered if you knew about the scale and pace of training post erosion? It would be interesting to see the figures over the past ten to twenty years - I'm not sure where they might be.

@pivoinerose the number of training places has pretty much remained the same. But the number of IMGs and our own graduates has increased, so training ratios are now ridiculous. Add to that the way the recruiting happens now means more people apply for several specialities (used to have to tailor your portfolio to fit), so looks worse than it ends up. But still many F2s with no jobs in 3 weeks.
Pay is an easier one

I too, have been on Reddit. The future looks bleak, though she has an Australian passport so there’s that.

Can anyone recall how the first Christmas was for a first year med student? My daughter is uncertain about joining us on holiday, in case she needs to study. They get just two weeks, right?

@W0tnow depends on the Uni. They all have different holidays.

Wes kept his promise and his first call was to the BMA. They are meeting next week. Change. It is possible this may, just may, be the start of something new 🤞

Completely agree, I used to take part in the process. Refuse to do it now.

Am a consultant and we, as a department do look after our trainees. Our workload is huge and I work in a very busy hospital in an acute speciality.
I can tell you , my juniors have gone home at 7:30/ 8:00 pm when their shift finishes at 4:30pm. Don't think any of the the workers are treated like how the junior doctors are treated!
I have raised this with the management but they can't pay them as they need to be monitored for a period of time. The monitoring can't be for just for my ward/ sub speciality but it needs to be for the entire department.

Not wanting to derail the thread but @ProfessorLayton1 are your juniors exception reporting their late finishes? As they may receive payment or TOIL if staying late for patient safety reasons (I'm a hospital consultant and an FY clinical/educational supervisor) I know exception reporting tends to be at a low level but the current set of FYs seemed very switched on about it and very aware of when/what to report

The juniors have escalated the issue and we are very supportive of their claims for getting the payment for the extra time worked.

This is such a helpful (and worrying) thread - thank you

Incoming F1 placeholders now been told they only have 9-5 jobs and no OOH. So basic pay and very limited learning opportunities. All the doctors I've spoken too say OOH makes you use your skills so ready for F2.
Know several F2s still with no job to go to next month. No locums available. They are so depressed and angry at unemployment when we are crying out for staff.

Hopefully Wes Streeting may do something. He has made it clear that the negotiations are about working conditions and training, not just pay.

He did seem to understand that it's about more than just pay. The money is there it just needs redirecting to employ real doctors and nurses 🤞

He said on the PM programme that PAs should not be replacing doctors. Fingers crossed indeed.

mumsneedwine which deaneries are these? Are you sure this is the case right across the UK?

The previous government was clear it was about conditions too - it just chose to focus on the pay demand for pr purposes.

@pivoinerose it's at at least 5 deaneries - these are the ones I know as fact. The BMA are collating data so hopefully we'll have a clearer picture by the autumn. Won't help though as all these placeholders got no choice of their deanery (despite 2 I know of coming too if their years and winning several awards). So unless there is change next years cohort will have it worse - there's more of them.
No one wants to believe it.But these poor young people have been well and truly shafted.

mumsneedwine still not great but it sounds as if it might only be the F1s who weren't initially placed that are on these restricted hours. I thought from your post that all F1s were being told this.

The increase in med school places makes zero sense in the wider context.

@pivoinerose it's the poor 'placeholders'. NHSE pay the basic foundation wage but OOH needs to be paid for by the deanery. Who don't have the cash. They have had to make supernumerary jobs for these doctors.
Yet PAs being actively recruited on more money.

Lots of newly qualified nurses can't find a job too.

Do we mean the same group mumsneedwine? Those who weren't initially placed/ 'placeholders'.

@pivoinerose those who got allocated their 16th choice deanery, who hadn't got enough jobs to give them. 1,000 students were told this.

What do you and your guys feel about the potential 22% pay deal for juniors?

Ds is surprisingly (to me) lukewarm as there are only vague words around reforming training and reducing the bottleneck and no commitment to any further increases to keep up with inflation.

I'm sure it will get accepted though. Gift horse/ mouth and all that.

Mine a bit unsure too. It's actually 4.8% extra this year and 5% more next year - v disingenuous of the government to release that 20% figure with no details.
Again, no solution to training bottlenecks or commitment to increasing pay further. Not sure it will get voted through.

Does anyone know how it compares to the offer Wales have already accepted? DD about to start F1 in Wales and says that they are all a bit unsure about what they are actually going to get paid 🤔

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/health/2024/08/medicine-wars?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1724857233

Looks like a good amount of detail on the PA issue. Suggests that Wes Streeting has at least temporarily allowed GPs to hire doctors rather than PAs with the ring fenced money, which I didn't know.