Economics at oxbridge, what a levels?

[Deedeeee]

Hello! If your child is studying economics at university, specifically ox or Cambridge, which A levels did they take? Very many thanks!

Not my child but I would advise maths and FM for anything mathsy (which econ is). Econ A level itself not needed but obvs useful if available (to give an idea of the subject, if nothing else).

Be aware that econ is having a moment - I know (of) a number of DC with very good grades who failed to get offers from the most popular unis.

DD is going to read E&M at Oxford and has Maths, Psychology, and Business A levels. Maths is the only essential one for Oxford, they said FM is of no advantage when someone asked. Cambridge is better to have Maths and Further Maths as that is pure economics and has become more mathematics based over the years. LSE also very maths based. They should do what they enjoy though.

DD does have economics GCSE self taught and I worked for years as an economist so she had an understanding and keen interest in economics but interview is designed to not need economics A level. Economics A level I would recommend. DD wanted to do that but wasn't possible with her school.

That’s brilliant, thank you so much to you both. He says he’d like to do maths and further maths and economics. So perhaps, if he wants to, applying to Cambridge would be the right fit for him. Thank you for your feedback on the value of economics as an a level and congrats to your DD @Penguinsa !

Thanks DeeDee I would go around both and see what he thinks or at least look up the courses online and also the admissions processes. Both courses are fine with those A levels.

One more… do you think it’s a problem if the child hasn’t done gcse history? He is taking 11 GCSEs , all difficult subjects, but he dropped history in favour of an extra language… is that a big no no?

DD graduated in PPE last year. She took history, maths and English language. She focused on non-maths based economics modules for her finals.

Not at all, I don't think they require any specific GCSEs other than the standard English and Maths. But they do get scored on GCSEs at Oxford, 8s and 9s are counted and counted the same and it's quantity of 8s and 9s as well and taken in context of school. DD had 12 GCSEs and level 3 fsmq at an underperforming comprehensive with 10 at 8s and 9s.

Entrance test is very important.

Nope, no GCSE history is not a problem. You can even take the A level without the GCSE if that's what you want.

In contrast, DD had 4 x 9s, 3 x 8s, 2 x 7s, 1 x 6 and D for her FSMQ. You don't need perfect GCSEs or straight A* predictions (or results) from state schools, but you do need to do well in the admissions tests and interviews (if you are lucky enough to get that far).

This is brilliantly helpful thank you!

Maths FM are essential (if the school offer it) for Cambridge and LSE pure Econ courses.

Oxford is joint honours so less so

They still may struggle at Oxford without FM. DD sat an economics module in her 2nd year which she didn't use in her final 8 as the maths content was beyond that she felt comfortable with. E&M would require more compulsory modules in year 2 & 3 than PPE.

Hi, OP -

C and O have quite different orientations towards Economics. As PP have indicated, C is heavily mathematically orientated. FM is either required or highly recommended, so this sounds compatible with the interests of your DS.

O focus on either PPE or Econ and Management. In other words, O comes at Economics from a policy perspective. Equally useful but a different skill set and likely a different set of recommended A levels. The home page of each degree programme will give details.

Seconding @clary ’s gentle warning about the incredible competitiveness of the degree programmes! Best wishes to DS

This is the E&M course. The people studying E&M at the open day said FM had no advantage but obviously if you want to take very mathematical options it would presumably help though then would have thought you would be better at Cambridge or LSE.

Years ago I read Economics at Cambridge and the majority had Maths and FM, I had neither and got through the course fine choosing less maths based options based on development economics, politics, history as well as macro and micro and econometrics. But it has got more than almost everyone has maths and FM now there at Cambridge. I would say for Oxford you would still need to be very strong at maths and not doing FM out of choice rather than out of lack of ability. A lot of it is stats, econometrics can be similar to computing as well.

https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/courses/course-listing/economics-and-management

How many A-level subjects is he planning to take? Be aware that some universities and schools seem to think that maths and further maths, while needed for the course, don't really count as two separate A-levels, so for Cambridge he will probably be competing against people with four A-levels, including two maths.

DS did economics at Warwick, and did A-levels in maths, further maths, economics and history. I think most people on his course had similar.

Be aware that some universities and schools seem to think that maths and further maths, while needed for the course, don't really count as two separate A-levels

People often say this on MN but I know a number of YP who took Maths, FM and one other and have never had an issue. Which unis think this, out of interest?

among dc’s friends applying to study economics at top unis (oxbridge, lse, ucl, warwick etc…) the most common combination seems to be- maths, fm, economics and another (sciences/ politics). Obviously not essential but these choices help cover all bases!

If your school offers FM, take it. Universities don't insist on it because some schools don't offer it.

You can also track down foi requests so I found one from 2019 for Cambridge and there were 117 offer holders with fm and 15 without. Things have got more competitive since then I imagine too. Even if applying with 4 A stars predicted do have a spread of places or at least a safety. Too many stories on Mumsnet over the last couple of years of multiple rejections of students with amazing predicted (and even achieved) grades.

Also doesn't talk about fmaths but might be of interest - recent e&m admission report

www.stcatz.ox.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Economics-and-Management-2024.pdf

This guide says for E&M most common A levels are Maths, Economics and History (though only Maths is required) https://www.theuniguide.co.uk/university-of-oxford-o33/courses/economics-and-management-ba-hons-2024-815c5a640676

University websites will say what they require for each course and ones that prefer FM will generally say that.

The LSE course is heavily mathematical and this is what their entry requirements say and this is probably similar for other competitive maths based economics courses:

• We consider your combination of subjects as well as your grades.
• A broad mix of traditional academic subjects provides the best preparation for studying at LSE. We expect applicants to have at least two full A-levels (or equivalent) in these subjects.
• We’re looking for students with strong mathematical abilities and A-level Mathematics (or equivalent) is therefore required.
• Further Mathematics at A-level is also desirable, and is acceptable for entry in combination with Mathematics and one other A-level. In these cases we'd prefer that the third A-level should be an essay-based subject. If you take four or more full A-levels, you’ll be expected to achieve A star A A (with A star in Mathematics), and a pass in the fourth A-level. We understand that not all schools/colleges offer Further Mathematics and you won’t be disadvantaged as a result – please could you and/or your referees indicate this on your application form.
• An A* in Further Mathematics plus an A grade in Mathematics is an acceptable alternative.
• Alongside Mathematics, we’re looking for subject combinations that demonstrate your analytical and writing abilities. Typical subject choices include Economics, Physics, History, Chemistry, English, and Government and Politics, of which Economics, History, English and Government and Politics are good indicators of writing ability.
• Many students on the programme have studied A-level Economics or equivalent but it is not required.

Bristol and Bath both made DD offers without FM for their economics courses very quickly with 3 A stars predicted (state). Bristol seemed to offer 4 A stars first but Bath was within a couple of days of applying. You do see people with 4 A stars getting rejected from the top economics courses - at Oxbridge that's generally due to weak entrance exam and/or weak interview if gcses are solid. The people we know in that category did get offers from other excellent unis like LSE though.

The LSE is A star in Maths required, MN has changed it to bold. Just amended it.

DS graduated in E&M from Oxford a few years ago. He has maths, history and economics at A level, Further maths at AS level and had studied the first year of the physics a level. School only entered for AS in maths but lots of his year took 4 subjects for year 12 and then dropped one for year 13. School probably put this on his reference. All people I have known apply for Cambridge economics had maths and further maths and one or two other subjects.