Economics at oxbridge, what a levels?

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Hello! If your child is studying economics at university, specifically ox or Cambridge, which A levels did they take? Very many thanks!

The issue with the Maths + FM + one other combination used to be that people would take the Maths A Level a year early, meaning that if they were only doing M, FM and another subject at A Level, they were only studying for 2 A Levels in their second year which was not considered an appropriately challenging workload. Now that people tend to do all 3 A Levels in one sitting, it is not an issue.

DS has an offer for PPE at Oxford with A levels in maths, economics & physics

Thank you all. He has also said he is keen to do physics at A level.
@EleanorSidgwick , congrats to your DS!

If you want to be comfortable on an Economics degree, you should be comfortable with A-level Maths and Further Maths at A* and two more A-levels - Economics, History, Politics, Physics, MFL all good

If you're considering applying to study Economics at either the University of Oxford or the University of Cambridge (collectively known as Oxbridge), it's important to choose A-level subjects that will prepare you well for the rigorous coursework. Here are the recommended A-level subjects for prospective Economics students at Oxbridge:

1. Core SubjectsMathematics: A strong emphasis is placed on mathematics due to the quantitative nature of the Economics degree. A-level Mathematics is essential.
2. Further Mathematics: Highly recommended, as it will provide a deeper understanding of mathematical concepts and techniques that are crucial in economics.
3. Additional Recommended SubjectsEconomics: While not always required, taking A-level Economics can be very beneficial as it gives you a foundational understanding of the subject.
4. Physics: This subject helps develop analytical and quantitative skills.
5. History: Provides a strong background in critical thinking and understanding historical economic contexts.
6. Geography: Offers insights into economic systems and development from a geographical perspective.

Subject CombinationsWhile there is some flexibility, a typical strong combination of A-levels for an Economics applicant might include:

• Mathematics
• Further Mathematics
• Economics
• Physics or History

1. Specific RequirementsUniversity of Oxford:

• Course: Economics and Management (E&M) or Philosophy, Politics and Economics (PPE)
• A-level Requirements:
• E&M: Typically requires A*AA.
• PPE: Typically requires AAA, with Mathematics highly recommended (especially for those focusing on Economics).

1. University of Cambridge:

• Course: Economics
• A-level Requirements:
• Typically requires AAA.
• Mathematics is essential, Further Mathematics is highly recommended.
• Economics is also recommended but not required.
• Admission TestsUniversity of Oxford:
• For E&M: Thinking Skills Assessment (TSA).
• For PPE: TSA.
• University of Cambridge:
• Economics Admissions Assessment (ECAA).

ConclusionTo maximize your chances of admission to Economics at Oxbridge, it's crucial to excel in your chosen A-levels, particularly in Mathematics and Further Mathematics. Additionally, performing well in the relevant admissions tests and interviews will be essential. Seeking help assignment help and guidance throughout your A-level studies can also enhance your understanding and preparation for these competitive programs.

When speaking to a student at the open day (for e&m) he did say the vast majority at his large college did further maths, it may not be essential but probably worth it if you have the option (also good for the other unis too)!

I asked DD as she knows lots of people with offers for economics at Oxford (about 40 or so), all joint courses as they don't do just economics there, and she thinks about a third have FM A level and said that's normally as a fourth. Though afaik Oxford accept FM as a third A level. Cambridge I think say it's 93% with FM so I would definitely take if applying there though the course looks almost identical to my course and there were lots of options with no maths like history, development economics, politics and the only compulsory maths was for part I. Econometrics after that, which is more stats / computing in y2 but other than that can largely opt out of the more maths based ones. Other universities it's worth checking the course in detail, LSE is very mathematical and I think if you are not great at maths there you will be looking at changing onto a different course. Some degrees have much more flexibility than others. Oxford and Cambridge have very low drop out rates.

Once through to interviews stage people with 4 A levels at A star do get twice as many offers as those at 3 A star for E&M but it's a balance as doing 3 gives you more time to do other things like earning money and work experience, sport, hobbies, time to relax with friends and more time to prepare entrance exam etc. It will very much depend on individual what is the right path but you don't want to jeopardize the 3 A stars or entrance test if aiming at Oxford. You see lots with 4 A stars not get an interview as it's 1 in 20 gets a place and 18% interviewed.

The long post below which I presume is AI gives incorrect information about Cambridge. Also check different entrance exams, Oxford's is very different to Cambridge one and LSE is adding an exam. Some people may find one much easier than the other. I would go for a course with quite a lot of flexibility as interests can change over time unless absolutely certain they won't. I would do A levels they enjoy as then they enjoy them, get a degree they enjoy and a job they enjoy though would do A level maths if able to.

DDs school did warn applicants for economics, computer science and medicine that those courses were now so competitive that they had had several students with 4 A stars get rejected from all choices in previous years. With and without FM and some with excellent personal statements.

This year it did seem to be a bit better and DD isn't aware of anyone not getting any offers for economics - I think the worst was probably in the grade inflation years during the pandemic when they was such a high percentage of As and A stars. It is still very competitive and would advise against going for the top 5 only - look at offer rates and choose 2 or 3 likely to offer. DDs school said 3, DD did 2. I think its rare to get offered all 5 for economics whatever you have in qualifications or on your personal statement but something like 3 offers is more likely for the all A star candidates. Though you only need one you want. The other issue you have is lots of the universities have the same offer grades of A star, AA for economics though if you have any contextual factors its worth checking these out. DD has one for Bath which got a lower offer of A star AB so that's her insurance and Bath were lovely as were Oxford.

There is FOI for lots of this stuff and thats prob a better place to look than word of mouth. For 2019 for example there was double the chance of getting into E&M with Fmaths. If your school offers it and your DC enjoys (and is good at) maths it would definitely make sense I would think. At least to start with it (in my DC's class half dropped it as they found it too hard/too time consuming). Also, the ability to handle four tough A levels and have another life outside studying bodes well for the intensity of Oxbridge. There are always outliers but with so much competition across the board surely it makes sense to place yourself in the best position.

Further Maths admission statistics for Economics and Management - a Freedom of Information request to University of Oxford - WhatDoTheyKnow

E&M isn't known for intensity as a course. Not all Oxbridge courses are intense, something like engineering yes, a lot of other courses there's plenty of time to have a good social life and do sport. The people who struggle are those tutored to get in although they are pretty good at screening those out. That FoI still shows more getting places without FM A level so no need to do it if you don't enjoy it for Oxford.

On the foi with fm: 164 apply, 32 offered. And without fm: 506 apply,42 offered. I think proportions over just the numbers of offers probably provide a more accurate picture. Obviously there is a chance either way but always good to put yourself in the most competitive position! This data is from 2019 and it has become more competitive since.

Yes if your child enjoys FM - there's a 50% drop out rate at DDs school for FM. Also FM tends to be a fourth and needs higher grades to get a place to study so its a bit like saying more grammar kids get in than comp kids. The trouble is you get parents who make their children do FM/sciences, EPQs and every extra curricular going giving the child no free time and none of it is their choosing and these people tend to get rejected at interview as its the parents dream not the kids. And even when they don't get rejected they can end up in a degree or job they hate. Maths / FM, 2 sciences is best for jobs but not if you hate them.

@Penguinsa I'm fascinated. How does your DD know around 40 offer holders for econ at Oxford? Econ & History takes 15, E&M takes around 85 each year and obvious there is also PPE with another 230 but that is a huge proportion, especially as 1/4 to 1/3 of offers are made to overseas candidates. It sounds as though all the offers must have gone to a few schools in a London bubble if so.

I think there's a Whatsapp group for them which was started via TheStudentRoom which I think has about 40 or so in for economics at Oxford (think its E&M as most of them have applied for Economics elsewhere) and there is a lot of surveying each other. DD isn't from London but lots of them are. She also knows lots at Oxford and Cambridge already or with offers across different subjects from her school, schools of people she works with who are at local private and boarding schools and her past grammar school in London and a couple of comps. She does 2 sports and in both they have 100% success rate in Oxbridge offers, clearly random but quite of a few of her friend groups have quite a few Oxbridge in and they go to different schools and know others. She found one other from her old primary via the WhatsApp group, I think they have them for all subjects but its done via PM on Student Room I think though I'm not good with technology things. She also went to the offer holders day and met the others at her college except one.

The Student Room also has spreadsheets of candidates who applied with their results etc and whether they got an offer by university though obviously anyone can add to that so some people put fake entries on so I wouldn't take it too seriously.

Oxford for PPE - Maths, Further Maths, Chemistry and History

The way you initially phrased it made it sound as though she actually knows 40 offer holders! That makes a lot more sense. My DD probably knew a dozen throughout the 3 years of her degree.

I think that when people start by questioning whether they should do FM,it’s not a good sign. FM should be taken and expected to be taken, unless there’s an extremely good reason not to - ie your school or college doesn’t offer it.

If FM looks daunting or unappealing, the student probably isn’t right for an Econ degree at the most competitive places. The majority will have it. You really do t want to place yourself in the minority if you can avoid it. It just gives yourself more of an uphill struggle.

Rememebr, most applicants who get offers will have extremely high predicted grades and do really well in admissions teats, which willbe mathematical. You have to be looking to maximise, not scrape the minimum stated requirement. Most will have far in excess of it. Okay, every year there will be people who get offers who do t have FM. There will be people who do t have the very top GCSEs or top A Level predictions, but they will be a tiny number out of everyone. Unless you’re got strong mitigating circumstances which can explain why your GCSEs aren’t stellar or why you don’t do FM or don’t have top A Level predictions, you probably just aren’t a strong enough candidate.

If you do have mitigating circumstances for these things and are super-duper and likely to do really well in the admissions test, it’s worth having a go. You might be in the small number who do t fit the general mould, and they want those people to apply. But really they aren’t interested in people who are are a bit mediocre without mitigating circumstances. Good but not exceptional GCSEs, scraping the standard offer in predictions and not having really extended themselves with wider engagement just doesn’t cut the mustard, when there will be far too many candidates that achieve highly in all these categories and still can’t offers. It’s not for candidates who are solid and decent, but fancy a bash at it, or whose middle class parents are aspirational and think their kid with 7s at GCSE is very bright.

Oxford is one of the most competitive courses at 20 to 1 and the majority don't have FM from the data shown. I did an Economics degree at Cambridge, my daughter will do one at Oxford and I have worked most of my life as and Economist and I would take what Oxford say as their admissions criteria as true. There isn't a secret entry criteria only MN knows about, the vast majority of whom have never done economics. If they had they would know it involves a lot more than maths and that the maths part is not superior to the other parts. The people with very mathsy backgrounds tend to go into roles helping rich people get richer whereas the ones going into policy roles do things like helping homeless people into housing, helping the environment, studying different countries macroeconomies.

If you are suggesting Wombat my DD only got an Oxford offer due to special circumstances that is untrue - she scored above the average on the entrance test for offers and above the average for offers on the GCSE score. I didn't take maths A level and got an academic exhibition from Cambridge for economics and scored better than the two with Maths and Further Maths. Oxford can pick and choose who they want, if they thought FM was essential why would they take 60% of candidates without it and its absolute nonsense that 60% of these students will struggle.

The Oxford admissions test is not mathematical nor is the maths is the interview particularly challenging.

Is there some data for Cambridge Economics - numbers who have FM and don’t?

I know nothing about your daughter. I’m sure she deserved her place.

Not surprisingly there’s a good correlation between students who do well on the entrance tests, score well on interview and those with strongest GCSEs and A Levels.

But there are always some who will get offers who do well at interview and in admissions tests, who don’t have the stellar GCSEs and A Levels (or FM come to that) - we know that. The point I was making is that this group are the minority. Every year, people ask if they’re DC who has good but not brilliant GCSEs and A Level predictions, who hasn’t chosen FM can still get in and if they should apply. They point to the standard offer and the listed requirements on the website and that their child seems to meet them. But what they fail to realise is that most applicants have far in excess of the minimum requirement. And many who have in excess still don’t get offers. Those who are top performers in the admissions tests and interviews CAN be the ones without the stellar academic records behind them, but they are the exception and not the norm. Widening Access is about encouraging those who aren’t from traditional backgrounds or with the stellar results to consider it if they are really great - or to encourage their schools and colleges who think they have a student who is actually really great, but might not have the usual academic background to have a go. Yes, of course they can see real potential crime ntrance tests and interviews when it’s there.

I have no idea about your child. Whether they’re from a very traditional and usual kind of background and fully derive their place, or from a rather different background and fully deserve their place, I’m sure they do.

I have a student off to do PPE this year with economics, religious studies and psychology A-levels + EPQ

I think going back to the origional question about alevel choices, if you want to study economics at the very top universities you need to be very competent at maths (and enjoy it aswell!). This usually means taking it to the highest level your school offers. As for the workload, taking 4 with further maths is usually not overwhelming as for top students applying to these universities maths alevel is usually very straightforward (some taking it a year early etc.) Not everyone has further maths but if you enjoy maths i think it is well worth doing it- for the other choices aswell!!

The LSE open day for economics very very strongly encourage maths and say that it is expected students enjoy and are good at mathematics

• Alongside Mathematics, we’re looking for subject combinations that demonstrate your analytical and writing abilities. Typical subject choices include Economics, Physics, History, Chemistry, English, and Government and Politics, of which Economics, History, English and Government and Politics are good indicators of writing ability.

Copied and pasted from LSE website for ideas about other good subjects to do!

Lots of good posts already.

Economics has been tough for a long time. DS was applying a decade ago with 5 A levels including double maths, Economics and History (probably the classic combination) and 4xA*, 1xA predicted and was still rejected by Warwick, UCL and Cambridge, though luckily not by LSE. .

Suggestions:

1. The decision is not Oxford or Cambridge but between a technical/mathematical course or something broader. Cambridge, UCL, Warwick and LSE (and now probably Imperial) offer the former and are all very competitive. Double maths is an advantage as is an essay subject as balance.
2. It is hard to predict which of the 4/5 mentioned will accept you. It is very possible to be rejected by LSE but accepted by Cambridge etc. The decision is then whether to apply for the top 4/5 courses with a reapplication as a fall back, or to include a couple of "safer" courses. Like medical school applications many will approach it as a two year process.
3. Personal statements can be very important. Worth reading around the subject (plenty of popular economics books out there, journalism or on line lectures, for example the LSE public lecture series.) Because of the number of applicants, assume the PS' will be scored, so read University websites carefully and ensure you cover/evidence anything that they say they are looking for.
4. Be aware that LSE, and indeed Warwick, UCL and IC can take an age to make offers.