Where to study Modern Languages and is it worth it?

[Operafanatic]

my child is doing French and Spanish at a level plus media studies (which he dislikes). School are v generous with predictions (they are obsessed with getting students into RG unis as it is a school performance measure). We didn’t realise school over-predict (head of sixth form said that parents pressure them to). My YP is predicted AAA as a result but no way they getting that - BBC most likely. Asking for advice about MFL as they seem to be the courses getting cut

Sorry to hear your experience was so negative @bibop . My DD is not intending to do any of the limited career options you suggest (though she does tutor A level students Spanish currently).

Out of interest, what do you deem a useful degree?

I was there around the same time and I also did MML (Modern and Medieval Languages) and my experience was not like this at all.

I’m amazed you think you could have learnt all that on Duolingo?! It doesn’t even teach verb conjugations!

I have used my languages a bit over the years, but the main thing has been that, although they’re not directly relevant to my job, my understanding of language, literature and culture has been invaluable (creative job). Just as useful as, say, history or English lit would have been.

I think a law or medicine degree would be more useful. Or a vocational qualification like plumbing... Something that can be used directly.

Despite being an Oxford grad, I found it difficult to get a job after University, except a very low paid one in ESL overseas. I did loads of interviews and was not offered anything. In retrospect I think it was very obvious that I wouldn't have been suited to the corporate world and that's why I wasn't getting any offers.

I ended up starting my own business and have been successful in my field.

Some of the people I studied with (French) at my college in that subject also floundered after University and 2 have been under-employed long term. None of the medics or Law graduates that I know from University have been under-employed, confused about what they were going to do upon graduation, or found that the world of work that they'd been training to enter, seemed not to want them.

I know other MFL grads (who went to other Universities) who have been happy with their choice of degree, however.

I would only use Duolingo for the first several months of language learning.

My point is that these kinds of resources didn't exist 20 years ago, but now they do.

I'm an independent learner (I've picked up all kinds of skills since my Uni days). Left to my own devices and the internet, I believe I could have learned some of the language skills independently, and done it to a high level. I've since learned a third language independently. I've also lived in several foreign countries and would have had no problems moving overseas to pursue an interest in a particular foreign language further. I have my own business and have done since my early 20s, so it would not have been outside of the realm of possibility.

I didn't need to know anything about literature or foreign cultures for my work.

My degree has not really been used and it took me 14 years to pay off my student debt.

I didn't have a clear plan of what I would do afterwards. I was sold this vague idea of "the world will be your oyster with a good degree" (by my school and parents) which didn't pan out for me. I was happy in the end with how things turned out, but I wouldn't do that degree again if I could go back and make a different choice.

@bibop So why didn’t you bother to do anything? You simply come across as someone who cannot be bothered and thinks the world owes you a living. It doesn’t. Neither is MFL truly vocational, as I have been trying to say. MFL grads can convert to law, so why didn’t you do that! I centre see, I’m afraid, why employers didn’t hire you. Literature is clearly not what employers want. They do want your research and analytical skills. Maybe your inter-personal skills and your ability to problem solve. All of which you can work on at university.

@ealingwestmum Obviously this story is what not to do or to expect. Employment is perfectly possible for those who set themselves up for a career with a decent cv.

Also @thing47 its often the smaller continues who use old fashioned application forms. It’s by no means universal that humanities grads aren’t looked at for all round ability. Like others, you look at science and competencies and see that x degree fits you into x job. It’s not like that for many jobs. Employers actually want to know if you are worth shortlisting. Smaller employers don’t pre test. They shortlist against criteria and one of those might be minimum A level grades. DH did this. Degree isn’t everything. As so few employers recruit MFL grads for MFL skills, they want evidence of other skills and attributes. A levels and GCSEs is just one of them. It’s also why Oxford look at and weight GCSE grades.

Thanks for coming back bipop. I guess there are many who are disenchanted with their studies for one reason or another. Good to hear things turned out for you regardless.

I didn’t go onto HE myself, stopped at O level, very different times but it didn’t stop me accessing grad schemes to progress a decent corporate career. I know this would not be possible now, and I have an academic daughter who so far, has found that her MFL experience, alongside her other ‘stuff’ has not held her back, to date.

I guess I come onto these threads to give some anecdotal hope, alongside those parents/students who have carved out successful careers because of their MFL backgrounds, not in spite of, and that options to wide careers extend to MFL prospects.

As an fyi, mine participated recently in an insight week for a Big 4 under the Business Technology consulting stream. Upon asking all the partners/associates what their education backgrounds were, given the tech environment, many came from humanities led degrees, assuring her doors were very much open to those from MFL programmes.

@TizerorFizz - Ouch. those are some quite personal comments!

I'm not sure what you mean by 'why didn't I do anything?'

Or that I must feel the world owes me a living?

I'm an Oxford graduate in my forties, and have had my own business for years. I make more money than my fellow graduates who are in the corporate world, and on about one quarter of the hours. I help people and do something good in the world. And I love my work.

I've never felt the world owes me a living. I created my own opportunities.

I wasn't suited to the corporate world because in interviews I was asked to sell myself and I couldn't do it. I was shy and gentle. I also couldn't do the politics which were already in evidence in group interviews. There's nothing wrong with not being suited to (or wanting to work in) that kind of environment.

I was perfectly suited to entrepreneurship in a particular niche area.

@bibop

DD paid off her uni loan at 29. So 4 years after qualifying as a barrister. You have basically rubbished your degree and what skills you gained from it.You even think Duolingo is a substitute. All of this is totally down to you and your personality. It’s not the degree. My DD is also self employed but accepts her degree gave her skills she needed but doesn’t use her languages. Other than on holiday.

@ealingwestmum - everyone's path is so individual!

@TizerorFizz -

I'm allowed to think the degree was not really worth it. It was my experience.

Why does that offend you? Are you the admissions office for MFL at Oxford or something?

There were multiple things about the learning experience that left something to be desired. I got an ESOL qualification after my degree overseas and the teaching was a lot better than anything I experienced at Oxford.

I have learned a lot more through working life than I did from my degree. I only had a few hours of contact time per week, and 6 months of term time. It was quite an isolated way to learn, and I often felt the dons were disengaged and simply wanted to get back to their research.

Duolingo is only suitable for the first 6 months of language learning, as I've already explained. It isn't a substitute for a degree. Living overseas, reading widely in different areas (history, literature, linguistics), consuming media, having lessons, and having a partner and friends in another language is a substitute for a degree. I am an avid reader and learner, and I was before my degree.

I didn't start making the big money until my 30s.

@TizerorFizz I think because I do post quite a lot about DD2 (I admit I do!) you have perhaps assumed that the whole family are scientists. They are not. DH and DD1 have humanities degrees and work in creative industries (DS does something else entirely) so I do understand what you're saying about humanities degrees, and agree with much of what you have said.

Oxford and indeed most universities look at GCSE and A level results/predictions for under-graduates, of course! My point was that once you have a degree, many universities (including Oxford incidentally) no longer care about your A level grades. You degree is, quite literally, everything. It's the only thing they care about.

MFL is definitely a worthwhile degree and there's no need to combine it with anything else to make it useful or employable.

I know MFL graduates who have gone into a wide range of careers, some making use of their languages (translator, diplomatic service, MFL teacher) and others not (law, accountancy, civil service, etc.)

Good luck to your son or daughter OP!

@thing47

I did assume science was your thing! Also post degree how many apply to Oxford? Only on MN……. Such rarified circles.

What I object to is the link many people make between MFL degrees and whether they are directly used for a job and if they are broad and academic, they are a waste of time and unnecessary . As @Ames74 says, look at the breadth of jobs that can be obtained.

When someone says they didn’t need MFL literature for their job, in the narrow sense of a job, possibly not! Who does? DD doesn’t. Thousands like her don’t. However they can at least understand and appreciate the skills acquired such as reading in the MFL, (most people cannot do this!) understanding the nuances of the text, dissecting the texts, critically thinking about it, plus appreciating great literatures in another culture. It’s academic education. If people don’t want it, buy Duolingo. That’s fine but not comprehending that a MFL degree teaches way more than the language is utterly narrow minded. That’s not even including the value of learning from seminars and presentations, discussion, the year abroad etc. This “Duolingo will do” so don’t bother with anything else utterly irks me! Rant over.

Love every word of your post

Thank you, @Perfectlystill . Have a great weekend

I have mixed feelings on this. I did MFL at Durham years ago and was certainly led to believe by parents/teachers/everyone of HR generation above me that "the EU" (vaguely imagined to be some sort of high-paying continental jobs factory 😁) would be desperate for people like me - British postgrads with reasonably fluent French and Italian. Of course in reality there were literally thousands of bilingual-from-an-early-age European graduates with well-respected, more vocational degrees. I don't think I really thought through what I wanted to do post graduation but I ended up in London in an entry-level role at a multi national (creative rather than corporate) where I did in fact use my languages, but I haven't much done so since then.

To be honest I don't know what I'd do if I had my time again but although I agree with a pp that generally, it's best for undergrads to study what they're good at and enjoy, I think I'd consider a bit more my likely career path and also where (geographically) I wanted to end up.

@MaverickBoon You did at least realise there was something else other than EU jobs. DD did part of year abroad in Geneva. It would not take anyone long to look at the student body there and realise they speak 3 languages almost from birth! That’s why most MFL grads from here don’t go into these EU or Non governmental jobs. Unless they are multi lingual of course - from birth. Thats why doing academic studies within the Mfl matter.