Where to study Modern Languages and is it worth it?

[Operafanatic]

my child is doing French and Spanish at a level plus media studies (which he dislikes). School are v generous with predictions (they are obsessed with getting students into RG unis as it is a school performance measure). We didn’t realise school over-predict (head of sixth form said that parents pressure them to). My YP is predicted AAA as a result but no way they getting that - BBC most likely. Asking for advice about MFL as they seem to be the courses getting cut

If you can afford a 5 year course including the year abroad, have a look at the Scottish universities. The first year can be skipped with good grades but there can be opportunities to change courses at the end of the first year on the five year course if you do well (not medicine / law).

My DD looked at a 5 year MFL masters degree but wanted law conversion so 5 years was definitely off the agenda.

Hi @billymean they got offers of internships at both and ended up declining the consultancy ones due to clashes in timing.

Not unusual languages - French, German, Spanish, so as ordinary as you get.

Both went to Oxbridge and just worked very very hard to get high grades, plus listened to FT podcasts, read legal journals etc and accessed the vast amount of online material on how to apply for law firm vacation schemes. It’s not easy (no graduate job application is these days) and many of their equally able friends are still hunting for opportunities. Including many who are studying law.

So MFLs can lead to good jobs in the same way a history or STEM degree can, I guess. So I do think they are worth doing. And I feel a strong knowledge of two languages in addition to English, plus a fourth lesser language that they both studied can only be another string to your bow.

However Cs at A level will be a barrier when applying for a highly competitive career.

Not necessarily. Depends on the candidate.

This is nonsense - Bs at A-Level is perfectly fine for an academic degree. I read French and Italian and didn't get any As at A-level (30 years ago). Yes, lots of literature but it's not all Molière.

Also, a huge number of my friends did MFL too.
I am in leadership within the Education Dept at our local authority, one is a tax specialist at a leading international law firm, one an investment banker, one in the civil service, one in museum curation, one in teaching, one a barrister.

People on this thread seem incredibly sniffy. I hope your DC finds a fabulous course in a language they love, OP.

@VivienneDelacroix Have you heard if grade inflation? Oxford wants AAA and some very good unis are below that but these days employers might also look at A levels and CCC might not make the cut when so many have AAA.

Oxford wanted AAA 30.years ago. OP wasn't talking about Oxbridge

And I still maintain you don't need AAA to cope with an academic degree.

No indeed you do not. As I posted above - DD did a very academic degree very well.

Also the OP is saying their DC will get BBC which is not CCC. They are certainly good enough grades to study MFL somewhere worthwhile (IMHO anyway). I recall an applicant for a job somewhere I worked who had a first - the interview panel was talking about them eagerly "they have a first!!" It was from a perfectly worthwhile university but I can promise it wasn't anywhere asking for AAA.

@Operafanatic which unis does DC have offers for? Some posters may have recent intel of what they actually accepted. DD's uni took her with BCC for a course with a "book" offer of AAB.

I went to Exeter and absolutely loved it. High grade offer though (that was 15 years ago).
I met a friend on year abroad who went to Swansea, lower grade offer (think it was BBC back then), and his level was brilliant by the end and he graduated with a First.
I am an interpreter now so actively using my languages.

The Heriot Watt Interpreting course used to be for the elite. Worth considering if it's still available.

I knew people who graduated in two MFLs there. (I met them during my time abroad.)

Just to add that the people I knew told me that the decision was made on interview - the uni wanted people who could keep their wits about them. (The interview was in English and it was expected that people would qualify in two languages. The folk that I knew all did either French/Russian or German/Russian.)

@WearyAuldWumman Interpreting is a niche job now. A bit like translation. Not that many linguists see their MFLs as a career. They see them as a string to the bow not possessed by others. Many unis give loads of careers that their MFL grads do. Strictly vocational ones are in the minority.

@clary A first from some unis really will not excite anyone if the student is a dud in other ways!

DD did MFL at York a few years ago. Now works in Brussels for the EU as a conference interpreter. She loved her course and job.

Yes, but the H-W degree isn't strictly vocational. The interpreting part of it is a bonus which doesn't require a post-grad qualification.

Not sure DD would have seen it as a bonus. If you don’t want that work, you don’t. I know people do it and are probably native speakers or bilingual before they start, but DD likes the sound of her own voice: being an advocate for others. She decides what she says. Making the case in front of a judge is down to her.

@TizerorFizz

It's great that your daughter has a job that fulfils her. However, other people might want to consider a course that includes an interpreting element.

It's true that there are people with no interpreting qualification who hire themselves out as interpreters. They wouldn't cope in a specialised field.

As part of my job, I've been involved in meetings where an "interpreter" has been engaged to facilitate a conversation between English speakers and speakers of an Eastern European language.

The EE language was not one that I'm qualified in, but close enough that I could get the gist of the conversation. I had to tell my line manager that the "interpreter" (a native speaker of the EE language) was omitting significant parts of the conversation, mainly - I think - because they were too embarrassed to interpret all of it. A trained interpreter would have known better.

Since the comments were being aimed at both my line manager and me, I felt justified in responding in English and asking the interpreter to repeat my response in the target language.

Thank you for this. Sounds like they're doing really well.

I know university blind recruiting is getting more common but I imagine the likelihood of Oxbridge MFL grads with stellar grades getting these kind of jobs is rather higher than those at much lower ranked universities with middling grades though.

Yes indeed. Also depends on the industry / profession you are applying for. Vast numbers of companies don't actually give a monkey's about your A level grades when they are recruiting graduates.

It's worth noting that if you are applying for a Masters, the majority of universities do not ask for A level grades at all – they simply don't think they are relevant.

So Cs at A level will limit your undergraduate university options, but that may well be all they limit.

It might not be though! They really can and do look at everything when a job is super competitive. As noted above, employers will trust Oxbridge. They know what they are getting. When DC has CCC and gone to a former poly they are not sure. Plus many will apply for jobs that have nothing to do with MFL proficiency. So the whole candidate could be looked at and why would someone with CCC suddenly be better than someone with AAA snd a degree from Oxford. It’s just unlikely.

Where dc want a career attached to MFL, they can go down that route but any casual glance at grad destinations from top unis shows the majority do not. Therefore work experience and tailoring a cv to a career makes sense.

Agreeing with some of the PP's here re not getting too bogged down on A level B/C or that mainly those attending Oxbridge will gain success on the grad internships/FT roles. A level MFL is deemed hard for non native takers, the grade requirements for unis excluding top tier will be lower to attract the candidates, and often in clearing when not filled. Teaching MFL at UG varies so much by uni - many will find the language aspect less intense as there's so much more to cover; it's important to review the language coverage in the handbook if YP wants to come away with high proficiency. However this can always be supplemented with extra curricula and travel. Often programmes can be modulated to suit their interests.

The question the OP asked was where; many talk about league tables but again, this is so subjective so whilst it's best for your YP to aim as high as they can, matching a MFL based programme to what they enjoy and can get the best value from, including their own specific uni criteria needs is preferable. On my DD's for example, being located near a high volume international route network was top of her wish list, for her to progress her linguistic skills.

The ranking variance is vast as the links show.

https://www.topuniversities.com/university-subject-rankings/modern-languages?page=0

https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/courses/search/undergraduate/modern-languages

https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/courses/search/undergraduate/modern-languages

Is it worth it - anecdotally in our opinion, yes. Apart from the frequent parent who says what's the point when most of the world speaks English, the shortlist experience has been similar Norauraborealis' DC (love it, I missed it too) except mine is not at Oxbridge, nor studying in UK.

Given that there is so much free and accessible support on recruitment processes, materials etc for many sectors, ensure your YP values the need to retain maths skills to undertake non-law assessments, even if pure humanities biased. This, on top of leading as full a life as they can with societies, PT jobs, basically anything that can help their application have some standout, as well as getting them to articulate succinctly if they get through to interviews (AI or live), using STAR or whatever methodology that works for them. They'll often get an immediate summary of their psychometric profile if they've got through initial selection, this can help them identify their gaps - other candidates will have them too from top tier unis, such a leveller if these basics are not addressed.

There is never a better time to get over the top roles going to others as more recruitment blind, diversity, WP initiatives etc are extended to reflect within the workplace more. The support is out there for self-driven YP, whatever they are studying. Including MFLs so good luck to all those thinking about it!

X-Post with you Tizer.

I can only anecdotally report on what I see with a peer group studying in unis today, and applying for jobs, today.

Lots changing. Brand alone is not enough, but many applications still require a 2:1 at the minimum and not too fussed education prior to that. Agree with your enhancing CV in whatever whay they can.

Lots of YP mature and flourish at Uni, and not held to ransom on their younger academic pasts, so long as they can demonstrate their value at recruitment stages.

Who are 'they' though @TizerorFizz? Big law firms and some City financial institutions care deeply about A level grades; vast swathes of other companies and industries, particularly where they are not London-based, not so much. They are far more likely to run their own tests and interviews, ask graduate applicants to give presentations etc etc. Totally agree with you that work experience and a CV specifically tailored to the job being applied for are key.

The style of teaching and learning at university is so different from school in a lot of ways that A level grades taken 3 or 4 years earlier really don't tell you all that much about a twentysomething's abilities. And the fact that universities themselves don't think they do is an important point.

I studied Modern Languages at Oxbridge, graduated almost 20 years ago. If I could go back and do it again, I would not. I never used my degree.

I use the Duolingo app and it makes me regret that I spent 20k on a degree when I could have got a job, and later used the app and learned independently.

It's not just the money spent on a degree that you waste on these Humanities degrees, but also the years you could have been working.

I think if you're going to get a a degree, at least get a useful one.

I'd only recommend languages if the person knows 100% they want to teach, interpret or translate.

None of the other 3 people in my tutorial group for our year (for one language that we studied together for 4 years), is using their degree now either.