Edinburgh vs Warwick MMath

[Cx5]

DS is finding it difficult to decide between Edinburgh (second year entry) and Warwick, both MMath. Obviously Warwick is more highly regarded for maths but he loved Edinburgh and it's feels it would be a nicer location to live in. We were very impressed with both of their offer holder days.
Any thoughts and experiences would be much appreciated!

I feel prestige wise, Warwick wins out for maths.

But location wise and campus wise. Edinburgh beats out Coventry (where Warwick is located)

Hi, OP -

I am a former Russell Gp STEM admissions tutor and DH an RG maths professor.

With offers like this your DS really cannot go wrong but I do have some thoughts.

As you say, a Warwick MMath degree has a special cachet. Warwick is so selective that DS would find a somewhat higher quality of peer and this might contribute in all sorts of ways to his UG experience. Warwick is a fabulous campus based university and the students have a happy vibe. Recruiters are well aware of the strength of the Maths programme and value it accordingly.

Nevertheless these advantages mean little to a young person who would rather be elsewhere. When ‘elsewhere’ is Edinburgh, which is a superb university with nearly as strong a Maths programme, located in a wonderful city, I would not hesitate to encourage DS to follow his heart. Students do best where they are happy.

Doing a great job at Edinburgh will be a fine platform for the next step in DS’ life, and that is the real goal.

Best wishes to DS

Sorry if it didn't come across as clearly. He'll do well in his life with a Maths degree from Edinburgh.

My Glaswegian DD has fallen in love with Edinburgh the city (and has enjoyed her time at the uni too). Can't comment on maths (although it's my degree but DD did do a 1st year maths module which was well taught). DD has liked that you can join activities in a city separate from the uni. She has found accommodation okay but in past years some have struggled. Found uni good in helping her obtain paid internships and part time student jobs are plentiful. Not sure about how flexible Warwick is if you find you've hit your ceiling pure maths wise - can you transfer to more applied maths course?

I always say to my DC to compare courses modules and options as well as location.

On the point of 'strength of peer'- Edinburgh is harder to get into than Warwick so I don't think this would be true.

In what way is it harder to gain admission to Edinburgh? I know there is the kerfuffle regarding Scotland v RUK, but I don’t know how that affects the entry qualifications of matriculating students.

The noncontextual (ie standard) Warwick Maths offer is A star A star in Maths and FM, then a third A star or AA or an excellent grade in a devilish exam. There just isn’t room to go much higher. (I wouldn’t look at UCAS tariff points because all kinds of things can count here, eg musical attainments.)

Ds2 read Applied Maths at Edinburgh, and absolutely loved his time there. He got a good degree, and has gone on to become a maths teacher.

The one downside to Edinburgh is the housing situation. Ds3 ended up at Heriot Watt university, and he and his friend had an absolute nightmare, one year, trying to find a flat to rent. There were multiple applicants for each flat, and obviously the landlords tended to prefer the applicants who were professionals/had full time jobs, over students, so they lost out time and time again. They spent the first few weeks of term couch surfing before they finally found somewhere - it worked out in the end, but was horribly stressful.

The flip side is that Edinburgh is an amazing city, with so much going on - and so much more within easy reach.

This probably hasn't been terribly helpful - sorry, @Cx5.

Have a look on the national student survey. When I looked, which was admittedly a year or two ago, Edinburgh was getting a bit of a hammering for course satisfaction. Edinburgh is a great research university but the undergrads seem to feel organisation and the prioritisation given to undergrad teaching could be improved.
Secondly, have a think about the difference in course structure, and the difference that 2nd year entry would make. Would it be harder to make friends? there are apparently 40-50 kids going for 2nd year entry for maths so they would not be the only one, but still a minority.
As a place to live, or to do a PhD, Edinburgh has a huge amount going for it (and IMHO beats Warwick hands down). But as undergrad programmes and their reputations go, I think Warwick has the edge for maths, though not by much.

It is not true that Edinburgh is more selective for maths though there are distorting factors that might give that impression, including that the average UCAS points earned by Scottish entrants is inflated (relative to those doing A level) by the fact that they earn points for both highers and advanced highers. For second year entry, Edinburgh look for one A-star two A's at A level or 38 points at IB with a 7 in maths. which is lower than the Mmath at Warwick.

Just from stats of acceptance rates.
I was not arguing about the quality of the teaching or Warwick being the favoured uni for maths, just simply saying that students will be very high achievers at Edinburgh also so seems a bit unfair to claim they won't be.

But I never claimed this. Edinburgh is excellent; of course the students are high achievers. It is also a hugely desirable university for lots of reasons, only some intrinsic to the disciplines.

It is not my impression however that students are 3 A star calibre, and as PP pointed out , we cannot compare UCAS tariff points because Scottish Highers and Advanced Highers are both counted.

There is an awful lot of room between ‘3 A star calibre’ and ‘less than excellent’. The students in my own STEM School are in that space (our offer is below 3 A stars but not much) and I would put Edinburgh students there also. After all, the acronym is COWI. I will look up the Edinburgh offer for English students now, for both Y1 and Y2 entry

Edinburgh. No contest IMHO.

For Y1 entry the A level requirement at Edinburgh is A star (Maths) A, A. The fact that there is no FM requirement cannot be compared to Warwick because the Scottish education system is different to the Englush one.

However, for Y2 entry the A level requirement at Edinburgh is

A star (Maths), A (FM), A

as against Warwick

A star (Maths and FM) and

A star or A, A, or a suitable examination grade .

This is a substantial difference in standards. Please remember, @Settlement22 , that I did not claim Edinburgh students are less than excellent. Only that on average they are not COWI students. Neither are ours

Thanks for the replies, all very helpful.

His offers are actually very similar
Edinburgh is A star A star A (maths must be A star)
Warwick is also A star A star A (due to MAT) but requires A star in maths and further maths.

That’s interesting, OP. The offer I saw is for next year

Ah I see the OP has proved my point nicely. Go on what offers are given not on what it says on UCAS.
Looks like students will be of the same calibre after all!

To the contrary, @Settlement22 . It is another big hurdle to the third A star or the strong exam mark that OP’s DS has already achieved (on the MAT in his case). The MAT qualification is the reason the remaining part of the Warwick offer is relatively low.
The offers are not equivalent.

Insofar as one can compare across reasonably close disciplines, Edinburgh students are in the same generally excellent space as those in my School of whom I am proud. However in British mathematics Cambridge, Oxford, Warwick and Imperial continue to attract the critical mass of top students.

Why pretend otherwise? It does not help the OP. I am not saying her DS will be a fish out of water in Edinburgh by a long shot, but the experience will be different

We shall agree to disagree

On that we agree!

Sorry something that is in my head that i hadn't shared isnalso that I feel you are doing Scottish students a great disservice with these claims.
Very few Scottish students head to English universities because of the tuition fees. Are you saying that the quality of Scottish students is lower than the English? The top Scottish students will be in Edinburgh for maths with a tiny percentage going to the COWI unis. Seems a bit rude to be claiming theu are not of the same calibre as English students really!

Would he be happier at a city uni or a campus uni? I would say the courses and calibre of offer holders will be comparable. Leamington Spa is a lovely place for students to live and there are no accommodation issues at Warwick (and cheaper rents if that matters). Having said that, I love Edinburgh (but it gets very cold!).

I agree with @poetryandwine. On average Warwick students will be stronger mathematicians than Edinburgh students. The best Scottish students will be split between StA, Glasgow and Edinburgh (StA too remote for some and many Glaswegian's stay in their city) with a small number going to COWI. Scottish unis used to attract top European students but now they pay, the very best go to to higher ranking unis elsewhere. Internationals are paying so much they tend to go with the league tables if wanting UK. Some international groups at Edinburgh keep to themselves so even if they are outstanding you are not going to get to collaborate/learn from them.

If he's considering academia then I'd go with Warwick.

I thought this was likely to be your unarticulated concern.

Edinburgh does not have the highest Scottish Maths offer; that distinction belongs to St Andrews Maths with its 3 A star offer. This is the first point.

The second point is that because of the population difference, more English students migrate north, particularly to St A’s and Edinburgh, than Scottish students migrate south. Top Scottish students do attend the COWI schools. So Scotland loses them.

I agree most top Scottish students probably stay in Scotland. Which unis they attend is an open question AFAIK - St A’s has the glam, and actually in the last research review Glasgow maths came tops.
I’ve never thought much less suggested top Scottish maths students are of a lower calibre than top English students. But they are relatively scarce just because the populstion is small. Those who stay in Scotland are prob spread between St A’s, Edinburgh, Glasgow and local unis.

Edinburgh like my uni attracts COWI rejects - we in admissions know this. And I think it and St A’s are the favoured Scottish destinations for English COWI rejects. That phrase already suggests the strength of student is below COWI.

For all that, I told OP originally I thought it likely her DS would thrive better at Edinburgh! Plenty of good students and great staff

I suspect with the broader education at Higher (maths 20% of penultimate year) and plus unconditionals plus no need to do MAT or STEP, Scottish students are generally behind RUK students in maths at start of uni. Few Scottish state schools offer more at most one AH maths course.

Many (I was one) catch up but some get disheartened or don't put in the work.

For avoidance of doubt: I assume that mathematical talent is uniformly distributed throughout the British population. My post above was based on this premise.

FWIW, I am not British

@poetryandwine We were expecting A star A A from Edinburgh, not sure if the higher offer was due to the 2nd year entry but everyone else we know of has had the same higher offer. DS is predicted 4 x A stars but you never know things might turn out.
My other son (twins) also has a MMath offer from St. Andrews which is also 2x A star 1 x A. They are both debating between Warwick and Edinburgh as their firm choice with Durham, St A and Edinburgh as potential insurances. Ideally they would prefer to be at different locations but given their options this might not be an option.