Edinburgh vs Warwick MMath

[Cx5]

DS is finding it difficult to decide between Edinburgh (second year entry) and Warwick, both MMath. Obviously Warwick is more highly regarded for maths but he loved Edinburgh and it's feels it would be a nicer location to live in. We were very impressed with both of their offer holder days.
Any thoughts and experiences would be much appreciated!

That doesn't mean they are less intelligent and able in maths though. Students in Scotland wanting to study maths at uni do AH maths in general.

Why is your focus so much on English students. It is a Scottish University, it has many Scottish students. There will be many top Scottish students studying there (and Glasgow) your claim that they are a lower calibre of student js highly offensive.

But I never made such a claim.

If we are looking at the top, say, 2% of maths students in each country as of equal calibre, a smaller population gives a smaller number of such students. I have said some number of top Scottish students leave, particularly for COWI, but I don’t believe all Scottish students capable of COWI leave. I have no idea how many do.

We do know that Edinburgh and St A’s are amongst preferred destinations for English students rejected by COWI. Nothing wrong with that! But part of the reason Edinburgh is in the tier below COWI.

If you think I’ve said otherwise, please quote my words because I cannot find it. I think you are taking offence from a broad statement of fact that I would have equally quickly made about Durham or several other English Schools of Maths including the one at my own university.

Agree but I stand by my comment that generally Scottish state school students at Edinburgh will be behind at the start so if your DC want to be in as high performing cohort as possible then Warwick over Edinburgh.

Hi, OP -

It is great that your twins have such high PGs and excellent offers.

I realise such intelligent young men are almost certain to have thought of this for themselves, but I have seen enough disasters even at this level to ask you to check with them that their Insurance choices actually have lower offers than the choices they firm.

Eg concerning the DS you wrote about, because (the remaining part of) his Warwick offer and his Edinburgh offer are the same, if he makes one of these very competitive programmes his Insurance choice and misses his offer, he is likely to be shut out of both. (I think chances that would happen given his PGs are minimal, but this does not affect the principle.) Mitigating circumstances aside, of course.

Ironically it is these top students who are rightly confident in their abilities who sometimes have difficulty appreciating this point.

Your twins can find data, I think in the Complete University Guide, on the results attained by matriculating students and which Maths programmes went into Clearing recently. Note that the attainments must be benchmarked against the offers in place at the time.

Again, best wishes to the twins

I agree with @SandyIrving on this, @Settlement22 . In my maths-adjacent subject we require AH Maths but it is regarded as the practical equivalent of A Level maths, not Further Maths. Actually it is a bit more, I think, but not full on FM.

This has nothing to do with the ability Scottish students but as more and more English and Overseas come in with FM or equivalent, it makes things harder for them.

I don't believe that this is correct.

According to the OP, her DS has been offered direct entry into second year in Edinburgh. When her DS joins the second year of the MMath, he will need to complete accelerated modules in areas such as calculus and algebra to catch up with the rest of the class. The students from the Scottish state schools in his class will already have completed these topics in the first year of the MMath.

Scottish students are severely under-represented at Cambridge and Oxford. UK students (all regions) are under-represented at Imperial (the majority of places go to China), and the number of Scottish students at Imperial is tiny. So it is definitely true that the number of Scottish students at COWI is very small. The implication is that the "brain drain" from Scotland to COWI is negligible and the brightest students at Scottish unis are likely just as able as many at COWI but have chosen to go to Edinburgh / other Scottish institutions due to a combination of cost (home fees) and cultural reasons.
The numbers going the other way (England->Scotland) are larger - firstly due to the large differences in population, secondly to the limited number of places funded by the Scottish govt to home students, thirdly due to a deliberate policy of St Andrews to cultivate a more international cohort.
FWIW, when I looked at selectivity of the top unis for maths, I couldn't see much difference between Warwick and Durham / UCL. So I think COWI as a distinct group is a tad overblown.
The Scottish system is different, not lesser. Student come into first year slightly less specialised and spend 1st year acquiring more breadth before specialising, but take a year longer to complete a bachelors or masters, therefore they leave uni at broadly the same standard.
As someone who was heavily involved with maths graduate recruitment, I'd have been happy to interview anyone with a 1st from Warwick or Edinburgh (and did hire people from both). I'd much rather have seen a 1st from Edinburgh than a 2:1 from Warwick (or oxbridge for that matter).

Thank you @piisnot3 It is good to know that the migration is mostly one way. We do know that in maths many of the English students at St A’s and Edinburgh were rejected by COWI, which is part of the reason that these SOMs like Durham, Bristol, etc are in the next tier.

I may have been able to save a lot of effort by simply remarking originally to@Settlement22 that I could have replaced ‘Edinburgh’ by ‘Bristol’ or ‘Durham’ in my original comment, to which she took exception. The only reason for using Edinburgh was that it was OP’s comparator.

I agree with you that a First from any of these institutions and beyond is more valuable than a Second from Warwick

Don't lose sight of what is important. It's your son's choice, not yours.... I'd recommend he (and you) spend a little more time researching the Scottish Degree structure and options he may have at Edinburgh in comparison to Warwick. Why not join with the other Freshers and enjoy his time studying a range of subjects in a fabulous city? Life is not a race!

@Itistwelvedown It can be if you need a job and have to pay rent!

My comment relates to what the OP asked.... which University do you recommend and why?

@JocelynBurnell 2nd year entry is offered to Scottish students too (3As at AHs only one of which needs to be maths) so generally these students will be behind RUK students at the start but agree a Scottish student who started in 1st year could be ahead (I wasn't. It took me to last term of 2nd year to catch up but I only had H maths on entry).

This is a moot point.

Scottish students do not have to pay tuition fees. Very few students from the Scottish state schools avail of the option of direct entry to second year.

My DD, Scottish student has just completed her MMath at St As and did 2nd year entry as did several of her cohort. I think it is becoming more popular with Scottish students provided they have access to the relevant AHs.
She was lucky her school offered AH maths, and Mechanics of maths she also had AH physics. Yes she had to hit the ground running but so too did her R of UK peers. Although we are awaiting final grades and classification she has to date done very well and had an ansolute fab time academically and socially. She had several offers for Phd posts but has secured a graduate role as feels studied out and is not keen on an academic career.
Edinburgh was a close second choice for her as the maths department was impressive but just too close to home. I can't comment on any of the English university's mentioned but they all sound fab.

@Cx5 how did this pan out for your sons?

I think the OP's son has 2nd year entry offer, so that takes this potentially unbalanced starting point you mention into consideration pretty effectively.